Getting SBF forces into overwatch without getting spotted

[Flibby]

It could very well just be a matter of me miss-remembering, but after coming back to the game after a while, i'm having issues getting my support forces into covered overwatch positions without being spotted either upon arrival or shortly afterward.

My usual plan is to advance units up on 'hunt' before taking the last action square on 'slow'. This seems to match the employment techniques for SBF positions by the book - http://www.2ndbn5thmar.com/dm/CCMWorkbookMcBreen2002.pdf

Does anyone have any advice?

[Erwin]

One generally has to place multiple waypoints along the route you want your unit(s) to take from A to B, and then examine the LOS from each waypoint.  Often you will find that your unit(s) will be exposed to enemy fire along that route requiring you to adjust the waypoints. 

Once you have found a safe route that avoids being spotted by the enemy, you can erase all the old waypoints and only set the minimum number you need to get from A to B.

If you want the unit(s) to be hard to spot at the final waypoint, yes you should SLOW move them to there.  But, units also need to be in cover and not close to any enemy - especially in the modern games where technology often allows for easy spotting.

[MikeyD]

Ah! That Marine close combat manual looks just like a CM tutorial!

The longer a unit stays hunkered down at a location the more difficult he is to spot. So get to your overwatch spot early, lay there and hide for a bit until you become part of the scenery, then start observing. It should be mentioned once you start firing your location's going to be known so initial 'stealth' will only get you so far.

[Glubokii Boy]

This is not something i usually do but i wounder if it would be useful (vs the AI) to place some smoke at the intendent overwatch location just prior to making the final move into position...

Allowing the team to be stationary and set-up as the smoke clears (hopefully )

[IICptMillerII]

9 hours ago, Flibby said:

Does anyone have any advice?

Its hard to give advice without knowing more, but my first hunch would be this; if you are trying to move your SBF units up too close to the enemy, they are going to be much easier to spot. Infantry crawling up onto a small rise to observe the enemy 500 meters away is much less likely to be seen then the same SBF unit crawling up into a position only 50 meters away from the enemy. 

You can always take some screenshots showing what is going on, upload them to imgur and then copy the image link here. The forum will automatically embed the images, and you don't have to worry about messing around with post attachments and file size limits. That way you can better illustrate what is going on. 

[Freyberg]

If it's mortars, you can get direct fire from a reverse slope position just short of being visible - it takes a little practice...

Edited July 2, 2020 by Freyberg

[AlexUK]

12 hours ago, MikeyD said:

Ah! That Marine close combat manual looks just like a CM tutorial!

The longer a unit stays hunkered down at a location the more difficult he is to spot. So get to your overwatch spot early, lay there and hide for a bit until you become part of the scenery, then start observing. It should be mentioned once you start firing your location's going to be known so initial 'stealth' will only get you so far.

These little bits of the engine are great! I didn't realise that the longer the unit is in position the more difficult it is to spot. Makes perfect sense. Cool!

[SimpleSimon]

My own hunch is that you're taking position up extremely close to the enemy. If you want safety for your men than one of the chief ways to manage that is to maintain substantial distance from the enemy's position. Most CM's maps are fairly small for their allotted forces, so you often have to maneuver right up into the enemy and then try to organize your attack basically right under his nose. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by SimpleSimon

[Bulletpoint]

On 7/2/2020 at 12:36 PM, AlexUK said:

These little bits of the engine are great! I didn't realise that the longer the unit is in position the more difficult it is to spot.

I didn't know that either. But I wonder if it's true.

[Glubokii Boy]

52 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

I didn't know that either. But I wonder if it's true.

The only stealth bonus i recall reading about is units that has not moved or fired at all since turn one...units getting into place mid-game and improving stealth...this is new for me to..

 

[Erwin]

My experience has been the opposite. The longer a unit is stationary (in cover) the more likely it will eventually be spotted by an enemy.

[Flibby]

Thanks very much for the suggestions guys

I think I am suffering from reading too much into the basic battle drills for assaults. Set up base of fire, suppress, move in with another team on the flank.

This is obviously not so simple in real life or in CM. The enemy do not sit in isolated spots waiting to be suppressed. It's also hard to suppress units in buildings etc. I think that some other posts i have read and other information from the battledrill blog about building fire superiority is more useful. It's certainly good to have in mind the idea of a SBF position, but in reality i suppose that this can, and perhaps must, come from different directions in order to be able to suppress not only the target, but the areas of supportive defence which will become apparent later.

[Bulletpoint]

12 hours ago, Flibby said:

I think I am suffering from reading too much into the basic battle drills for assaults. Set up base of fire, suppress, move in with another team on the flank.

This is obviously not so simple in real life or in CM. The enemy do not sit in isolated spots waiting to be suppressed.

From the same book you link to:

"Units without mutual support are doomed. Mutually supported units protect each other from being fixed or assaulted."

Remember to compartmentalize the battlespace - find the places that can be isolated from the rest of the battle, due to woods, buildings, hills, smoke, fog, etc. and then focus on those. As you found, it's no good being able to suppress three buildings in front of you, if your assault team can take fire from other positions on the sides as they cross the open ground.