Question about Luftwaffe Infantry

[waffelmann]

Hello,

 

I saw (like others before me) that for the luftwaffe infantry exists different textures.

These ones with the HG-patches and these ones with the regular field division-tags.

 

I have noticed too, that the luftwaffe camo smocks only appears on the jäger- and fusilier units (which - I think -  are regular field division units) and not on the grenadier unit (HG-units?).

 

This brings me to the conclusion, that the HG and field division units should show different textures? Is this correct? Should this be reported as bug?

 

Greetings, alex

[waffelmann]

Hmmm....I am afraid that I will get no answer...

[Bubba883XL]

when your selecting the units in the editor, have you checked which camo is applied? via drop down menu bottom of screen ?

[waffelmann]

Of course.

There are the options:

- standard

- camo

If you cose camo, then the troopers with smocks appears, too. But only for the filed division units...apart from this there is no difference...

 

There is no "field division" option. At least in my game....

Edited June 5, 2020 by waffelmann

[waffelmann]

Maybe can @BFCElvis answer this question?

[BFCElvis]

2 hours ago, waffelmann said:

Maybe can @BFCElvis answer this question?

It's actually one that @MikeyD probably knows. 

[MikeyD]

Ugh, I'm less knowledgeable about uniform stuff that people make me out to be.

For the first half of the title the only LW infantry you have are airborne wearing 'tropical' uniforms. These are probably meant to be Herman Goering Div. They ran away with their tails between their legs in mid-44 and were busy committing horrific war crimes on the eastern front at the time of the Rome to Victory module takes place.

Later airborne infantry. They use the same LW uniform as other titles. Winter standard uniforms aren't very different. 'Greatcoat' uniforms use the greatcoat model with the paratrooper helmet. When there's snow on the ground winter uniform get the white smock but the standard 'Fritz' helmet (which might be an error).

Infantry (field division). Their 'standard' uniform included the army 'Fritz' helmet with regular German infantry uniform & model, but with the art tagged so LW insignia and ranks will display. The 'mixed camou' selection is mostly regular infantry uniform with a scattering of tagged camou blouses with LW markings on them. In winter the 'standard' uniform is little changed but the 'mixed camou' selection disappears and is replaced by 'Winter' which is all camou smocks that switch to white in the snow. The greatcoat option appears to be standard German army.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by MikeyD

[waffelmann]

8 hours ago, MikeyD said:

For the first half of the title the only LW infantry you have are airborne wearing 'tropical' uniforms. These are probably meant to be Herman Goering Div. They ran away with their tails between their legs in mid-44 and were busy committing horrific war crimes on the eastern front at the time of the Rome to Victory module takes place.

Later airborne infantry. They use the same LW uniform as other titles. Winter standard uniforms aren't very different. 'Greatcoat' uniforms use the greatcoat model with the paratrooper helmet. When there's snow on the ground winter uniform get the white smock but the standard 'Fritz' helmet (which might be an error).

Infantry (field division). Their 'standard' uniform included the army 'Fritz' helmet with regular German infantry uniform & model, but with the art tagged so LW insignia and ranks will display. The 'mixed camou' selection is mostly regular infantry uniform with a scattering of tagged camou blouses with LW markings on them. In winter the 'standard' uniform is little changed but the 'mixed camou' selection disappears and is replaced by 'Winter' which is all camou smocks that switch to white in the snow. The greatcoat option appears to be standard German army.

Thanks fpr the response, but I know this (roughly).

 

I think I formulated my question bad.

Let me try again:

There is the standard-LW-Infantry in game (not paratroopers).

I think that until July 44 it schould represent the HG-Division (only Option for infantry is "armoured infantry" in the editor).

From July 44 there are pure infantry units, which (I think) should represent the field disvisions (Jäger and Fusiliers in option "infantry" in the editor).

 

I rexploded the resources and saw, that there the regular textures:

e.g. "smod_german_lw_m43_soldier_uniform 2.bmp"

 

Then there other textures with tags:

e.g." smod_german_lw_m43_soldier_uniform 2 [fielddivision].bmp"

 

So theoretical you could have different uniforms for these 2 types (I think they used different insignias). But they don't use it in game.

 

I only want to know if this is a bug or a truncated feature?

 

Greetings, alex

[waffelmann]

sigh...

[akd]

Are you talking about scenario editor or quick battle purchase?

In the scenario editor, LW Infantry is Field Division troops.  It should not even be selectable as a category until Field Divisions are present in the theater (June - Oct 1944).

Armored Infantry is HG Division troops from July 43 - July 44.  The category should be gone entirely after that end date.

Things get messy in QB where “armored infantry” formations are selectable under “infantry-only” with vehicles stripped out, etc, but their appearance should still be tied to the source formations in the scenario editor.

Edited June 14, 2020 by akd

[waffelmann]

Scenario Editor.

In July 44 are both available.

But this doesn't matter. I am interested, if they (Infanty and armored infantry) should user different textures.

 

At the moment I use a workaround and use for the field division textures the [north]-Tag...

[akd]

2 hours ago, waffelmann said:

Scenario Editor.

In July 44 are both available.

But this doesn't matter. I am interested, if they (Infanty and armored infantry) should user different textures.

 

At the moment I use a workaround and use for the field division textures the [north]-Tag...

I think for the June-July 44 overlap this is intentional.  If you select "standard" for LW armored infantry in May 1944 you will get a mix of "HG" tropical uniforms and the standard Luftwaffe field uniform.  If you push the date earlier the tropical uniform is predominant.

I think it is meant to represent the general shift from a more uniform, tropical appearance in summer 1943 to a more hodge-podge appearance as replacements were fed into to the division going into 1944.  No doubt there should still be some differences in details, but it is pretty close.

[waffelmann]

8 hours ago, akd said:

I think for the June-July 44 overlap this is intentional.  If you select "standard" for LW armored infantry in May 1944 you will get a mix of "HG" tropical uniforms and the standard Luftwaffe field uniform.  If you push the date earlier the tropical uniform is predominant.

I think it is meant to represent the general shift from a more uniform, tropical appearance in summer 1943 to a more hodge-podge appearance as replacements were fed into to the division going into 1944.  No doubt there should still be some differences in details, but it is pretty close.

 

Yes. I know.

But I mean something other.

Did you explode the game-file with the german uniforms?

[waffelmann]

And I'am glad that someone reads this at all...

 

[DougPhresh]

In Fortress Italy, the troops of the Herman Goering Division display the correct white Waffenfarben in Fortress Italy, but in Gustav Line and Rome to Victory bear the green Kragenspiegel of the Field Divisions. Simply, the tropical uniform in Sicily is correct for the HG Division, but the temperate uniform for Italy and Northern Italy is, I would venture to guess, ported from Battle for Normandy or Red Thunder unmodified. The cuff title is also present in FI but disappears in the later modules.

This seems like a pretty quick fix - just a uniform option like Greatcoat/Camouflage/etc. that substitutes white collar badges for the green and adds cuff titles for Luftwaffe troops during the dates the HG was involved in the campaign. Call it "Herman Goering" or something in line with the Gebirgsjäger option added in Rome to Victory.

I have included sources below.

I think a simple swap of the collars would look a bit like this:

Compared to a Field Division Troop:

That's a quick fix and would be entirely satisfactory. However, if BF wants to go a step further, read on:

Working from these sources I have quickly put together some HG troops in M43 with Luftwaffe/Heer Smocks, Italian Camouflage Pants and the SS Oakleaf Smock.
 

Official support would obviously be easier to use, higher quality, and make sure that both Field Division and HG troops can be fielded.

With Rome To Victory, the elements of these uniforms all exist in the files already. It's just a matter of a more talented artist and researcher putting together Appearance options for Herman Goering / Herman Goering Greatcoat / Herman Goering Mixed Camo (Luftwaffe and Heer Splinter with some Italian?) / Herman Goering Oakleaf  / Herman Goering Winter or whatever the options end up being.

[Frenchy56]

Ez made some HG Division skins, tropical and temperate. Go and grab them here:

http://cmmodsiii.greenasjade.net/?p=5140

You can also find the ones he made for CMBN for field divisions.

http://cmmodsiii.greenasjade.net/?p=8257

Edited June 22, 2020 by Frenchy56

[waffelmann]

As I wrote: there would be textures with a [fielddivision]-tag in the game files. They only don't show up. And this is the question: bug or intention?

 

I would asume that it should work  similar to the camo (dot-pea) uniforms of the germans....

[Frenchy56]

Yeah, I've tried it and the modtagged files in the sources don't seem to do anything. I've replaced the textures with Ez's and used modtags on the scenarios instead.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Frenchy56

[waffelmann]

I tagged my fielddivision-textures with [north].

So the LW-infantry looks like HG in italy and like fielddivision in north-italy (and this is in the end of 44)...

[DougPhresh]

So there is a way to have both HG infantry and Field Divisions on the mainland? 

[Frenchy56]

Not really, no. I don't think that ever happened in real life either. You can still at least have HG panzers since field divisions only had StuG units.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Frenchy56

[waffelmann]

I think he means optical distinguishable.

 

And I think not at the moment.

 

Sadly  no official ever answered the question about the textures...

Edited July 21, 2020 by waffelmann
eieiei....

[Sgt Joch]

Hi,

I think part of the reason for a lack of an official reaction is trying to ascertain what you think is a bug.

LW infantry as used in field divisions has two options in late 44, "standard" which has the regular gray-green uniform which was used by all German infantry and "mixed camo" which has selected soldiers wearing camo smocks. By this time, most soldiers recognized the value of camouflage and camo smocks were widely used, even if not necessarily part of the standard uniform.

The scenario editor tends to give you more options then were available in RL, so you can craft the scenarios you want.

 

[waffelmann]

Late answer, but I am always pleased, of anyone answers!

 

I don't say that there is a bug. I only ask if the appearence was other intended.

 

My english is not very well, but I thought the description of the situation was understandable.

 

If I may repeat myself:

"...

there would be textures with a [fielddivision]-tag in the game files. They only don't show up. And this is the question: bug or intention?

..."

 

 

Greetings, alex

 

[Sgt Joch]

sorry, misunderstood your question.

[fielddivision] looks like a mod tag. I would guess this is to control how the Camo smock shows up in LW field Divisions. They share the same Camo smock as Parachute units, the mottled green LW splinter pattern, but Parachute units pretty much all wear it, while only a few of the LW infantry have it when you pick "mixed camo".

One way to find out for sure would be to replace it with something else, say a bright pink uniform, and see where it shows up.