exsonic01 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) https://www.tradoc.army.mil/Portals/14/Documents/MDB_Evolutionfor21st (1).pdf After years and years of COIN-oriented operations, US armed forces are trying to increase their full-scale war readiness in a way to develop and prepare their forces and structures based on "multi-domain battle" doctrine. These are far future plan concepts, but as far as I know, US army is slowly but steadily trying to change their forces to meet new demands from new doctrine. I hope these contents hopefully convince devs to prepare next modules of CMBS with more features of "modern" battle field with wider map. Frankly, I think CMx2 engine has much more advantage then other games to depict such features, as CMBS and CMSF2 showed good description of info-sharing, battle field data-link, and unique detection/observation mechanism. On top of those, - Better description of artillery fire power including FASCAM/DPICM and counter battery. - ELINT / SIGINT description - Wider maps - Description of SF/light infantry infiltration etc etc... Those will show a glimpse of such futuristic modern warfare in larger scale in CMx2 engine. Well, if game engine limitation prohibits such upgrades then there's nothing we could do about it. However, if something like these are nicely modeled and described in CMx2 engine, then that will looks like easier, ground-war version of CMO / CMANO, and that will make all wargame grognards fully excited!! Edited February 7, 2020 by exsonic01 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 That glorified Powerpoint presentation reminds me of Pentagon presentations from the 1990s touting 'force multiplier' integrated technology advances, exotic systems still under development that worked-as-advertised perhaps 25%(?) of the time. Most of the stuff (vaguely) mentioned in that presentation isn't applicable to CM scale. If a supply network is disrupted or an ammo depot hit 200 km away that will only show up on the tactical battlefield as reduced ammo and fewer tanks. If battlefield comms is interrupted that's CMBS's ECM setting (that few people touch because its annoying to play). I'm reminded of players who wanted Panther D's low mechanical reliability modeled in WWII. Well, that's modeled in those scenarios where Panther D isn't present. Because it had broken down 100km back a few days ago, outside the scope of the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrano01 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Alarmingly the scenario shown appears to involve a US attack on North Wales from North Western England and Ireland. Does somebody, somewhere know something I don't or have Meibion Glyndŵr been rather upgraded as a potential threat? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 5 hours ago, cyrano01 said: Alarmingly the scenario shown appears to involve a US attack on North Wales from North Western England and Ireland. Does somebody, somewhere know something I don't or have Meibion Glyndŵr been rather upgraded as a potential threat? Right at this moment there's a mass deployment in North Wales (precise localation is Top Secret) of ground forces under the codename 'Dragon Rally' (concentration moto Pays de Galles)" annual excercise following 'Elephant Rally' on the continent Weather forecst looks fun for them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 @exsonic01, and can you explain in short the difference between multi-domain and good ol' combined arms? And how it should be reflected in company-level armor/infantry CMxx? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 10 hours ago, cyrano01 said: the scenario shown appears to involve a US attack on North Wales from North Western England and Ireland Finally something will be done to sort out the Welsh problem, once and for all! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exsonic01 Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 13 hours ago, MikeyD said: Most of the stuff (vaguely) mentioned in that presentation isn't applicable to CM scale. If a supply network is disrupted or an ammo depot hit 200 km away that will only show up on the tactical battlefield as reduced ammo and fewer tanks. If battlefield comms is interrupted that's CMBS's ECM setting (that few people touch because its annoying to play). I'm reminded of players who wanted Panther D's low mechanical reliability modeled in WWII. Well, that's modeled in those scenarios where Panther D isn't present. Because it had broken down 100km back a few days ago, outside the scope of the game. I'm not claiming "CM must depict all those features shown in videos". But there are some parts, like SIGINT/ELINT/counter battery/ and etc..., which can be depicted inside the current CM time / length scale frame. Plus, I really wish next CMBS series with increased scale and I truly believe CMx2 engine (and upgraded engine in the future) has an ability to depict larger scale battles with more toys and more features. This part is my wish, but I think CMx2 engine has huge potential to become a game of depicting larger scale battle with "modern" technologies, which would includes some or little part of "multi-domain battles". It is not just ECM thing. CMx2 already modeled drones. Info-sharing and datalink is modeled. So, it would be relatively easier to model ELINT / SIGINT description with some assumption and simplifications: something like in form of "in-situ updated information from higher formation signal / intelligence company", you could depict "unknown radiation/signal source" icon on the map with some frequency and RNG-based algorithms. EW setting can play some here, by increasing the time to take share info, or decrease the accuracy of estimated position of "signal" icons. Offmap counter battery is something not easy to model, but it is not something impossible to do. Based on these factors, I think CM engine would be the perfect one to depict such futuristic modern warfare in the future. One core thing I wish is larger scale: this is something I (and some others) truly believe what is really required in CMBS. Description of DPICM and FASCAM is essential in modern combat of combined arms, as it is already shown how they can influence on armored battle during Donbass campaign. Small size of maps can be a problem with those cluster munitions, because cluster munitions might cover too wide area. Not only that, if the infiltration of SF/light infantry and ELINT / SIGINT information are depicted, small map size will make game a bit too easy. On top of those, most of maps of CMBS has no room to maneuver and flank and circumvent. I'm not sure why you are so reluctant to increase the scale of combat. If that is related with performance and optimization issue, then OK I understand. But if you have plan to develop any future CM engine, then please consider to make one with bigger scale battle. With the increased scale, all those features will make this really great. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, exsonic01 said: Description of DPICM and FASCAM is essential in modern combat 1. Can you provide a cross-checkable list of cases when they were empoloyed on massive scale in recent battles and played a decisive role in modern warefare? 2. CMxx is mostly a (reinforced) company level simulation. You seem to wont to turn CMxx into a modern BTG simulation. I guess you believe it'd make it more interesting but it wouldn't. Modern warefare is much more brutal so a reinforced and properly combat supported BTG equals to a regiment or division of good ol' times. As a division commander you'd be firstly and foremostly playing the game of chess of your immediate subordinates you'd been given the command of and secondly trying to squeeze as much of the logistics and (combat) support chain as humanly possible. And since your superiors would normally fail you on both tracks you'll have no one but you to recoup. Making it too realistic will kill the game. Edited February 8, 2020 by IMHO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrano01 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) On 2/7/2020 at 5:15 PM, Erwin said: Finally something will be done to sort out the Welsh problem, once and for all! I believe Edward I had a similar idea. His force multipliers were rather more picturesque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caernarfon_Castle#/media/File:Caernarfon_Castle_1994.jpg and at a modern cost of about £28.5 million (if the Bank of England's inflation calculator is to be believed) the castle and walls of Caernarfon/Carnarvon came in a good deal cheaper than a single F35; and did manage to hold out against Owain G during the last little disagreement between England and Wales. In the interim I believe hostilities will renew in South West London on 7th March... Edited February 9, 2020 by cyrano01 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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