[scenario] Logvinovo

[Zveroboy1]

Logvinovo part I

 

 

This is a fictional scenario very loosely based on the events of february 2015 in the Donbas region of Ukraine during the Debaltseve offensive.

You command a company sized hybrid force made of Russian volunteers and low quality separatist units supported by a T-72, a BMP2 and a couple of APCs tasked with a dawn attack on the small village of Lohvynove (or Logvinovo in Russian).

 

Historical background :

To the best of my knowledge there was never a proper assault of Lohvynove. Due to a snafu in the command chain, the Ukrainians withdrew the units defending the position, only leaving a handful of men of the 54th recon battalion with a single APC there. The unit that was supposed to replace them never came, leaving this key location practically undefended. When the Ukrainians realised their mistake, it was too late.

It is not clear whether the separatists were aware of it or if a reinforced infiltration group just seized the opportunity to capture the village.

Obviously this wouldn't have made a very fun or interesting scenario so I had to use a good dose of creative license. Without going into too much detail, basically the scenario is based on the premise that the defence of the village is somewhat reduced but not to the extent it was in reality.

Disclaimer :

I chose to use Russian names because the battle takes place from the separatists side. The briefing mentions "Kiev junta". This is purely for flavour and immersion and doesn't reflect in any way my own political views on this conflict.

Credits :

Haiduk for his information on the battle and the composition of the forces on both sides. All mistakes and differences from the real events are of my own doing.

Install :

Extract in : documents/battlefront/black sea/game files/scenario

Download :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/132e335d8ajn8px/CMBS scenario Logvinovo part I.rar?dl=0

 

 

[Zveroboy1]

Recommended mods :

The scenario has a mod tag for snow if you want to use BarbaricCo's winter mod.

And I recommend using a mod for the separatists.

 

[Erwin]

Note that a couple of the Winter Mods (SNOWY ROOFS COMPLETE + ADVANCED TERRAIN) only give download links which do not seem to be working.

[Zveroboy1]

Hmm I downloaded it just two months ago, it was still working. Okay I just had a quick look and it appears that you need to use the links on the second page.

Posted March 8, 2018 by BarbaricCo. These still work.

It is a bit of a hassle to install, lots of files but I think it is worth it. It looks cool. You can play without the winter mod obviously, it is purely cosmetic.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Zveroboy1

[Erwin]

5 hours ago, Zveroboy1 said:

need to use the links on the second page

Sorry...  Not sure what you mean by 2nd page.  

[Zveroboy1]

Second page of the BarbaricCo's thread I linked above. The links don't work for you?

[Erwin]

I see what you mean.  I was looking at the "Download LInks.text" file.  That contains URL's.  But they don't work.  Thanks for clarification.

[Nektoman]

Hell, this map looks great, very atmospheric and realistic with winter mod (at least at the images). Thank you for this job. I'm going to test your scenario.

 

On 1/21/2020 at 10:23 AM, Zveroboy1 said:

Obviously this wouldn't have made a very fun or interesting scenario so I had to use a good dose of creative license. Without going into too much detail, basically the scenario is based on the premise that the defence of the village is somewhat reduced but not to the extent it was in reality.

As I know, there were very intensive clashes after seizing Logvinovo, when Ukrainans tried to return it and relieve their Debaltsevo forces. It could be simulated too. It could be even a mini-campaign

Do you intend to create any other scenarios based on the events of that time?

[Nektoman]

Oh, sorry, now I see that it's "part 1"

[Zveroboy1]

Thanks. Let me know what you thought about it when you're done : whether it was too easy, too hard, if you found it interesting and it was fun or not.

I am working on part II. Hopefully I can make it a bit closer to the real events than part I which is fictional.

[IMHO]

Just a little information: the scenario won't load until the game is upgrade to 2.12. Just in case someone stumbles upon this issue.

[Haiduk]

8 hours ago, Nektoman said:

As I know, there were very intensive clashes after seizing Logvinovo, when Ukrainans tried to return it and relieve their Debaltsevo forces.

New module and additional equipment at least need for this (and hypothetical UNCONS pack). Base game doesn't allow to make historical Donbas war scenarios.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Haiduk

[Zveroboy1]

Right yes it won't be historical. We don't have the right models of tanks, lots of equipment is missing and it won't be a battalion sized force like in reality.  And even if we had all these things available in the editor, I am not sure it would be possible to portray this type of fighting accurately anyway. Too little is known about the battle. The time frame would be hard to reproduce. Real engagements are much more slow paced. And the way I understand it, these clashes are much more about long range firefights with one side pulling back early before getting within small arms range, without house to house fighting.

But it won't stop me from trying to make something fun and interesting. It will be like what you sometimes see on television "based on real events". The map is as accurate as I could make it though, just think of the scenario as a bonus.

 

[Nektoman]

I ended this mission up. I like it. 

It seems that the defenders were a little passive. But I have an expirience of creating AI plans and I know that it is really hard to make the defenders as active as if they were ruled by a human.

As I have already said, it is very atmospheric map. I had enough time and not great power. This way, the mission was more infiltration than assault. I think it is very realistic. The feature of CM battles which I don't like is lack of time - many battles end in a slaughter. This mission should be executed otherwise.

I have lost 1 vehicle in first 5 minutes - it bogged right on the road. Another should have been destroyed by AT rocket but it stroke a tree. The appearance of Ukrainian truck was scaringly unexpected.

It would be nice to play this mission h2h, I don't know is it balanced or not.

[Nektoman]

I have one remark on map designing. We know that CM soldiers can't use windows for entering houses. "Independent buildings" usually have 2 doors on opposite sides, and there is no problem.

But if we model a village house using "modular building", I think we should make at least 2 doors on opposite sides too. The attacking group usually uses windows for entering, but does not walk around a house just to go through the door. Of course we should imagine that the windows are protected with grilles, but they are rare in villages. Only in villages - in towns and cities of former USSR they are used often. 

P.S. I lacked a sapper squad in this mission)

Edited February 17, 2020 by Nektoman

[Erwin]

5 hours ago, Nektoman said:

if we model a village house using "modular building", I think we should make at least 2 doors on opposite sides too. The attacking group usually uses windows for entering, but does not walk around a house just to go through the door.

Good point.  We have purists who want things are realistic as possible, but as you say, in RL one can climb thru windows.  Until CM2 features window traversing, more doors (even an unrealistic/excessive number of doors) would actually make for more realistic tactics.

[Zveroboy1]

Thanks for taking the time to give some feedback. This is really useful for me.

Concerning AI plans, yes there is not much in the way of AI plans in this battle. With a map of this size, it gives the attacker a lot of freedom; you can decide to attack toward the centre, left, wide left, right and wide right. But on the flip side, so much freedom makes it impossible to predict the movements of the attacking force. So rather than having the defender launch blind counter-attacks with several plans in the hope that one might connect, I decided to have them stay static. Also personally, I find that in most cases when I play a scenario against the AI, counter-attacks usually make my job easier as the attacker because they often just get slaughtered in the open, in the case of infantry in particular.

You got unlucky to have a vehicle bog down with these ground conditions. I picked frozen ground on purpose because the single tank is kind of crucial to the success of the attack and I didn't want it to get immobilized. I think I must have played this scenario 4-5 times to test it and never had a vehicle bog. But hey that's part of the fun, friction and all.

Good point about the placement of doors. I have thought about this problem before. This might lead me to change my mapping technique a bit in the future.

 

 

[Erwin]

20 minutes ago, Zveroboy1 said:

AI counter-attacks usually make my job easier as the attacker because they often just get slaughtered in the open, in the case of infantry in particular.

Maybe some folks like defending - probably can be fun in H2H - but vs AI, defending can be boring - and usually, the design has to use massive waves of suicidal attackers knowing that most will get mowed down.

[Nektoman]

7 hours ago, Zveroboy1 said:

You got unlucky to have a vehicle bog down with these ground conditions. I picked frozen ground on purpose because the single tank is kind of crucial to the success of the attack and I didn't want it to get immobilized. I think I must have played this scenario 4-5 times to test it and never had a vehicle bog. But hey that's part of the fun, friction and all.

I'm agree that it was fun, I can't say that I was really concerned, it is really "Clausewitz' friction". All the more it was a vehicle with "green" crew. I just have reported.

I have suddenly remembered one more thing about map designing. After my MTLB has bogged down, I tried to drive other vehicles strictly along the road (I moved from the deployment zone on the right flank). It was not really convenient because the road was very squiggly and I had to place many waypoints. Maybe it is better to make roads more direct? All the more so this road was not very important for the entire scenario. Unfortunately we can't make 100% copy of real environment (even if we make "real" roads we can't rotate houses as we want) and I think there should be a compromise between reality and playability. Also direct roads just look better.

Anyway, your map, your rules

Edited February 18, 2020 by Nektoman

[Zveroboy1]

Yes actually this isn't even a proper road, it is just a foot path really. I don't know how much it reduces bogging chances but it is probably minimal. Also it is barely visible normally without snow, which how I first did the map. I usually take great care not to have jagged roads but in this case you should just drive your vehicles in a straight line along the path and not bother about all the little twists and turns.

[Haiduk]

@Zveroboy1

You can extend scenario and merge it with neighbore Karapulka river scenario   I read new article about Debaltsevo, where author pointed important detail - Ukrainian trops in Lohvynove not only covered main supply road, but also controlled two of three crossings through Karapulka river. From the hill behind Lohvynove was good LOS on the terrain aside the river, so any attempts of the enemy to approach from that side would be repulsed with mortars, artillery and ATGMs. Though for such hypothetical scenario full size map 6 x 3 km is needed

@Nektoman As i read stories of soldiers, which fought in Debaltsevo they mostly used windows like escape way, but not for the entering.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Haiduk

[Nektoman]

14 hours ago, Haiduk said:

@Nektoman As i read stories of soldiers, which fought in Debaltsevo they mostly used windows like escape way, but not for the entering.

@Haiduk According to memoirs of DPR volunteers who fought in Debaltsevo, "who has more serviceable tanks and heavy guns is winner". Not because he could break the defenders to pieces, but because the defenders just retreated first. Nobody wants to rush against enemy's tank with a grenade. Not that time, not that war.

But in CM we model a fictional conflict (or even fictional "Battle for Debaltsevo") where the well trained assault groups could seize buildings with heavy fire supression, smoke screens etc. Passable houses could be appropriate here, I think.

14 hours ago, Haiduk said:

I read new article about Debaltsevo, where author pointed important detail

Can you give the link? It would be interesting for me.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Nektoman

[Haiduk]

54 minutes ago, Nektoman said:

@Haiduk  

Can you give the link? It would be interesting for me.

Yes, here (in Russian): https://hvylya.net/analytics/politics/kto-i-kak-sdal-debalcevo-svidetelstvuju.html

This is second article of artillery officer with callsign ArtyGreen. Hew was a commander of artillery recon group in 25th mot.inf.battalion. During Debaltsevo operation this skillful officer in cooperation with 128th brigade, established artillery recon and fire adjusting network, which united almost all artillery and mortar units inside the bulge and partially artillery of Sector C. This network operated parallel (and maybe instead) with official, which established Sector C command, because official system was completely obsolete, ineffective and took too much time for maneuver with fire in conditions of such type of warfare. Initial success of Debaltsevo defense completely obliged to effective artillery fire, based on ArtyGreen network. Through his network communication channels passed many information, so he issued own first article in 2015, where sharply criticized official version of General Staff about Debaltsevo operation and blamed highest military and political leadership in the intentional surrender of Debaltsevo bulge. This is second artilcle, which more extended. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Haiduk