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Bud Backer

Some Tactical Advice Needed - Rooting out Infantry in a town

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Light up everything that could possibly be used as enemy concealment positions.  Lead with HE and MG's.  Find a place to dismount your infantry and work slowly.  Break up your squads into fire teams.  Use as much smoke as possible.  Never send a squad where a fire team hasn't gone and never send a fire team where a scout detachment hasn't been.

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The only thing I disagree with here is the suggestions to use smoke. When you have fire superiority, you want to use that, not block LOF. Smoke is rarely useful, and only then to blind key enemy assets and (very size limited) locations.

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I hope to squeeze him from two, then three sides. My concern is his remaining ATGs and the Hellcat. I hope to freak him out when every bit of artillery I have lands on the village in one go. It lands in 2 min as I have a TRP there. I’m keeping back until it does as I don’t want any friendly fire casualties.

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38 minutes ago, Bud Backer said:

every bit of artillery I have lands on the village in one go. It lands in 2 min as I have a TRP there. 

+1  NICE!!!  Maybe that'll make the Hellcat a stationary bunker.  Or with tracks damaged so badly it can't shoot and scoot from behind buildings effectively. :)  

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It’s now 2 minutes later. My arty has started falling on the village at the end of the turn. I’ve advanced three king tigers with the fourth on overwatch. As two tigers moved closer I began to spot some infantry in a nearby trench. The tank’s TacAI took them out pretty instantaneously. 

So far so good...

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1 hour ago, MOS:96B2P said:

+1  NICE!!!  Maybe that'll make the Hellcat a stationary bunker.  Or with tracks damaged so badly it can't shoot and scoot from behind buildings effectively. :)  

Yes, I was using the artillery somewhat sparingly but now that I know where he really is and what he is doing, and with the guidance I’ve received here, I’m moving in.

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All right so here we are 4 minutes after my artillery started landing.

I’m dropping 2x Nebelwerfers (they have 130 rounds each I believe originally, about 140 between them now), 2x 120mm mortars, combined about 40 rounds, and 1x 81mm. I am leaving about 50 smoke rounds in the Nebels. 
 

All my armour is tightening the noose. I’ve destroyed his remaining ATGs (I devoted 50% of my allotted time to careful, slow recon with several scout teams). 
 

The artillery must be making the units antsy. Like this the remaining Hellcat. Or he figured he’d lose it to arty so he moved it deliberately. I call this suicide by Tiger...

 


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I now can move around with impunity, as long as I keep some distance to make bazookas struggle to hit. 

Edited by Bud Backer

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Excellent. Since this is an advice thread - a couple of things occur from the above:

Those AFVs look too close together, and far too close to the town. That's not necessarily a risk, but it's not making the most efficient use of the asset - they could control the same space, and cover each other (you definitely want a pair of them covering the same area), but control far more space with them, and keep them firmly out of bazooka range.

That kind of positional advantage (the goal of manoeuvre warfare, essentially) is pretty important - you can sometimes turn a fair fight into an unfair one, just by moving things around.

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1 hour ago, domfluff said:

Those AFVs look too close together, and far too close to the town. That's not necessarily a risk, but it's not making the most efficient use of the asset - they could control the same space, and cover each other (you definitely want a pair of them covering the same area), but control far more space with them, and keep them firmly out of bazooka range.

+1

Other than that, I'd say the moment your arty stops falling, send in your infantry. Have you chosen your debarkation point and approach route?

Also, my rule of thumb when using vehicles:

If there's no reason NOT to move fast, then move fast.

 

Good luck.

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I agree with you. 
 

There are a number of reasons for what you see:

1. I am using zoom, and that makes everything look a lot closer together than it really is. 
2. The lead tiger has a disabled gun. I am using it as a mobile MG bunker. The following tiger is fully operational.
3. I could not originally move the tanks to the right of the picture because my opponent had ATGs all along the treeline that you see beginning in the upper right of each frame. That would risk a penetrating hit in my side armour. Secondly the hellcat was position as such that if I tried to go right I’d be taking a shot in my rear armour. In this case the two tanks were exactly where I wanted them in order to catch the hellcat wherever he moves. 
4. Both of these tigers are covered by a third to the left (off frame) as well as multiple MG- and autocannon -equipped halftracks. 
 

Incidentally, on the far side of the village is another king tiger. Had the hellcat reversed, it had a view just between the buildings to catch it. It never really had a chance, but I desperately wanted it to move. 
 

Keep the suggestions coming!

Edited by Bud Backer

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34 minutes ago, Bud Backer said:

2. The lead tiger has a disabled gun. I am using it as a mobile MG bunker. The following tiger is fully operational.

When I played Gog and Magog I did the same thing. Works well.

35 minutes ago, Bud Backer said:

Keep the suggestions coming!

Here's one:

 

Get in there and win this darn thing!

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Everyone's been saying so i'll reiterate. Your firepower > his, raze the place. Ideally all your infantry should have to do is occupy smoking craters. 

Edited by SimpleSimon

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On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 3:14 PM, Bud Backer said:

I have a two platoons of Panzergrenadiers mounted on half tracks, 4 king tigers, and ... I’ve hit the town with my artillery (Nebelwerfers and 120mm mortars).

You seem to have enough to use some smoke and to send in more artillery on the town. While that is falling upon the town you let the tigers roar in to take a bite. The half tracks and grenadiers could be sent in at the same time and then you just rely on your troops and hope that they will fight well as good Arians should do.

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On 1/20/2020 at 4:37 PM, IanL said:

Great thread everyone - I have nothing to add - lots of good advice already. I am glad I am not your opponent in this one.

This. I just love these tac advice threads, especially when everyone chips in.

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The battle progresses. I’ve destroyed quite a number of buildings. I’ve seen several of his infantry scramble from ruins or trenches trying to flee as I area fire, but none have actually escaped. I’ve ordered a fire mission in the last objective and diverted part of my force to ready an attack once the arty lands. 
 

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Damned annoying. I’ve lost more assets to my opponent’s mines than to his fire. But he has to be hurting now. Bad. 
 

It’s a large objective area. I’m not sure I can clear it all in time to win if he keeps up the hide and seek. 
 

On the amusing anecdote side, in a trench fairly close to the edge of the village he’s been keeping a bazooka team hidden. It pops up now and then, then disappears into a contact. Now pint of area fire would draw it out or kill it, so I drove a king tiger right onto the trench in the spot where I saw them. 
 

THAT worked. They freaked and ran and...died. 

Edited by Bud Backer

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All right, so my opponent surrendered, with 10 minutes left on the clock. The town is almost entirely rubble. 

My opponent has concluded that there is nothing that can be done against king tigers if there is reasonably good LOS. I know what I would have done were our roles reversed but I wonder, do you guys have some suggestions for forces, tactics or deployment that you'd recommend? Base it on what you’ve seen in this battle.

 

Edited by Bud Backer

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In Normandy, that's possibly true, but I don't accept that for CMFB.

They're incredibly powerful, but the US has the tools to deal with them. Like a lot of things it comes down to manoeuvre - if you're in a head on engagement at range, then you're playing into their strengths. Anything where you can get flank shots with a 76mm represents a ton of wasted points.

Based on the above screenshots, I'm not sure that occupying the village was a good idea. Sure it's the objective, but that matters for precisely one turn of the game - the last one. It's really open and a massive, obvious target, so trying to hold it directly seems daft. It's not clear where the setup areas were on that map, but covering the approaches to the village from multiple directions is more important than holding the village itself.

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I don't know what the defender set-up locations were.  But, I recall some defensive games I played where I put main guns with inf protection in the hills around the village and was able to do a lot of damage to the attacker who was massed to take the village and had not allocated any forces to occupy surrounding hills.  And if he had split his forces to occupy surrounding hills, he would not have so much to attack the village with. 

A) If possible you wanna prevent the attacker massing his forces against one part of your defense and B) Try and position defensive guns for flank shots from keyhole positions that the enemy cannot easily see.

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Having said that King Tigers are powerful - they're definitely easier to use than they are to counter.

It's pretty common with anything competitive to have the easiest stuff dominate early on in a meta-cycle - the easiest stuff puts up positive records early, before the techniques or builds that requires more finesse can develop.

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19 minutes ago, domfluff said:

Sure it's the objective, but that matters for precisely one turn of the game - the last one. 

+1  :D  That is both true and funny.  Leave it to @domfluff to cut straight to the point.  :)

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@domfluff hit the nail on the head. 

Looks to me like your opponent based his defense on the terrain rather than his opposition.  While the terrain is indeed very important, the enemy force should be the main objective, always.. take the enemy out and the objectives will come too, like @Bud Backer just proved.  Terrain should primarily be used to focus reconnaissance, maneuver, and firepower... it can be a combat multiplier if used correctly, and it can help box you in and kill you when it isn't... like your opponent learned.  Defending the village like Domfluff so wisely said trapped him into a static fight he could never win with the assets you fielded.

All that being said, sometimes there is no counter to an enemy asset... all depends on what you have been given to work with and what you do with those tools, for example a Stuart is rarely going to be successful against a Tiger, KT, JT, etc... especially if commanded by a competent player (like Bud)... I've had a few games like that too, nothing to be ashamed about.

Fun thread Bud.

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