The Year Ahead Bone Post

[BletchleyGeek]

10 minutes ago, kohlenklau said:

This has been racking my brain a bit...

Partial quote from initial post by Steve:

 

"The inevitable question is… when will it be ready?  Winter 2020 is as specific as I think I can be at this point.  That’s only a few months and it seems about right for what remains."

Winter 2020 to me is like saying the Battle of the Bulge happened in Winter 1944. It means that Fire and Rubble gets released at the end of 2020?

I request a more specific answer!

Some suitable answers would be:

1. By the time I get home from work on the day after my first master's degree term is over...say 1730 CST on 3 March 2020. That would be most lovely.

But I can hang for an extra week so the Schwimmwagen looks DoublePlusGood.

I presume that will be December 2020, otherwise he would have said a few weeks rather than months. Southern hemisphere winter starts in June, but definitely Steve didn't had that in mind

 

Good to see you around the boards again Phil!

[Battlefront.com]

Sheesh.  I gave you guys a year (2020) in my post, you'd think that would be enough   But seriously, winter 2019/2020 is the one I meant.  Now I have to get back to getting the Volkssturm TO&E integrated.  Funny how much time it takes to make tactical units that are complete rubbish.

Steve

[BletchleyGeek]

Cheers for the clarification Steve

[Battlefront.com]

5 hours ago, Peter Panzer said:

@Battlefront.com

Hey Steve:

Good to see you on the forums - can I take advantage of your inquisitive bug hunting mood from earlier in the thread?

Here's an unintended consequence of the 4.01/4.02 patch that puts a real kink in the bocage terrain and presumably related infantry TacAI behavior (i.e. displacing into enemy fire) in CMBN.  Some players like @PIATPunk called attention to this a few months ago and @BFCElvis has been helpful in logging it with a viable test scenario.

You can view page six of the most recent conversation about this, which contains two files uploaded by PIATPunk reproducing the issue.

In a game where the bocage is often as much a role player as the combatants, perhaps you'll agree this one constitutes more than a nag by a few Normandy buffs.  Maybe a ready fix can be pushed now that the Rome to Victory dust has settled?

As always, thanks for the countless hours of great wargaming over the last 20 years - you guys really are appreciated!  I'm definitely looking forward to the Black Sea module and a fix for the CMBN bocage/infantry bug!

Thanks.  Unfortunately, I don't have anything more to add at this point.  We're not very keen on producing patches to fix singular, situationally specific issues because it takes quite a bit of time to produce a patch.  The time needed to release a patch with 1 fix is the same as a patch with 100 fixes.  Since there's always something to fix, we have to do it this way or everything will suffer.  Eventually things get fixed.

Obviously this does present problems for a customer who experiences a specific bug that is more than irritating.  The bocage issue you've brought up is certainly more than irritating to those who experience it, but it is fairly isolated when one considers the whole range of possible Combat Mission games and maps.  We have to balance our limited resources.

I'll see what I can do, however don't hold your breath for anything soon.  Our schedule is crammed at the moment and we're already having to juggle too many things.  The release of RtV helped get things back to "normal overloaded", so odds of a patch are better.

Steve

[kohlenklau]

Thanks Steve!

 

Winter in Northern Hemisphere began on

Saturday, December 21

and ends on

Thursday, March 19, 2020

[Battlefront.com]

1 hour ago, kohlenklau said:

Thanks Steve!

 

Winter in Northern Hemisphere began on

Saturday, December 21

and ends on

Thursday, March 19, 2020

Unless you live up my way We consider winter gone when you can see the ground again, and that certainly isn't March 19th.  Sometimes it drags out into May.

See, game companies aren't the only ones that can be late!

Steve

[Vergeltungswaffe]

1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said:

...See, game companies aren't the only ones that can be late!

Steve

FTFY

[Battlefront.com]

Dang it!  I just had my English corrected by a treadhead.  How embarrassing!  Well, could have been worse... a Marine could have corrected my grammar

Steve

[Megalon Jones]

10 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

Unless you live up my way We consider winter gone when you can see the ground again, and that certainly isn't March 19th.  Sometimes it drags out into May.

See, game companies aren't the only ones that can be late!

Steve

Minnesota?  Wisconsin? North Dakota?   Hold on, I think I've got it.....it's got to be Michigan.

[Sequoia]

Maine my friend.

[MikeyD]

When working on CMFB there was some struggling to create the Ardennes environment. The solution? Make it look like central Maine, an area both Steve and myself are (coincidentally) intimately familiar with.

[AlexUK]

13 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

Thanks.  Unfortunately, I don't have anything more to add at this point.  We're not very keen on producing patches to fix singular, situationally specific issues because it takes quite a bit of time to produce a patch.  The time needed to release a patch with 1 fix is the same as a patch with 100 fixes.  Since there's always something to fix, we have to do it this way or everything will suffer.  Eventually things get fixed.

Obviously this does present problems for a customer who experiences a specific bug that is more than irritating.  The bocage issue you've brought up is certainly more than irritating to those who experience it, but it is fairly isolated when one considers the whole range of possible Combat Mission games and maps.  We have to balance our limited resources.

I'll see what I can do, however don't hold your breath for anything soon.  Our schedule is crammed at the moment and we're already having to juggle too many things.  The release of RtV helped get things back to "normal overloaded", so odds of a patch are better.

Steve

Thanks for the response Steve. I'm not playing on any maps with bocage at the moment because of this issue, so from my point of view it is quite a big one. 

[Badger73]

23 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

<snipped>

The bocage issue you've brought up is certainly more than irritating to those who experience it, but it is fairly isolated when one considers the whole range of possible Combat Mission games and maps.  We have to balance our limited resources.

I'll see what I can do, however don't hold your breath for anything soon.  Our schedule is crammed at the moment and we're already having to juggle too many things.  The release of RtV helped get things back to "normal overloaded", so odds of a patch are better.

Steve

I suppose that's true when you count all CM games and maps.  Within CMBN though, this specific bug regularly ruins play.  It is not trivial within that title.

However, I do understand that debugging it will be a major effort diverting resources from other more profitable work.  I hope someone might wake up in the middle of the night, say "Eureka!", and find a fix for it soon though.

[Battlefront.com]

3 hours ago, Badger73 said:

I suppose that's true when you count all CM games and maps.  Within CMBN though, this specific bug regularly ruins play.  It is not trivial within that title.

Totally understood.  We've definitely been able to reproduce the bug with some regularity.  It's not an "all the time, every time" thing, but it's definitely something that needs to be fixed as soon as we can.

3 hours ago, Badger73 said:

However, I do understand that debugging it will be a major effort diverting resources from other more profitable work.  I hope someone might wake up in the middle of the night, say "Eureka!", and find a fix for it soon though.

Generally speaking, when a bug is pretty evident it's usually fixable without too much fuss.  What takes so much time is testing, verification, release, and post release.  The primary concern is since the game engine is in constant flux the more time that passes the more current and previous code diverges.  Since we don't rebuild and test each inactive game regularly alongside an active project (totally impractical to do that) it's entirely possible that something in the current code doesn't play well with another game.  Testing is the only way to know for sure, and if we do find something (happens more than you think) then that has to be fixed before release.  When we do put out a patch it's always a risk that we missed something like that.  When that happens a brand new patch, which cost us quite a bit of time to do, now has a new howl for fixing.  And then we're right back in the same position we were in before.  Perhaps worse in some people's eyes.

The only time we can make a "quick" patch is within days or a few weeks of a release.  In that case there's likely been little new work done to the game engine and that reassures us we can punt a patch out without too much risk of unintended consequences.  By the time this Bocage discussion really got going we were already outside of that window by months.  To put out a patch now is not quick or easy to do, so we've been waiting to amass more fixes before committing to a new patch.

It's a damned if we do (time + risk of more troubles), damned if we don't (customer annoyance) situation.  Nobody's happy with those.

Steve

 

 

[Aragorn2002]

On 1/3/2020 at 5:34 PM, BornGinger said:

Any information about how many scenarios and campaigns that module might be planned to contain?

BornGinger. Would like to pay you a huge compliment on your map and reserach for the Blue Hills scenario. Looks great. Would you mind if I tried to convert it to CMRT sooner or later?

[BornGinger]

You can convert the map from FB to RT or make your own map whith the help of the source map. What ever is easier for you. I mentioned in the notes that anyone can use the scenario file as he likes. And as the battle was between the Germans (or rather mostly Estonian and other European nationalities than Germans) and the Soviets it's only fair to have a scenario for Red Thunder.

Be aware though that if you decide to make quick battle files, it seems that an assault battle (a1) might cause the computer to crash if one is playing as the attacker and don't have enough RAM on the computer. I think that an assault quick battle file should be smaller than what I have, should have the allowed points for getting troops decreased or, if you want one the size of whay I have, the assault quick battle file should be played as defender against the AI only.

I have mentioned those things on the Scenario Depot and if you want an assault quick battle for RT you should mention it too.

Edited January 17, 2020 by BornGinger

[WhiteWolf65]

That is great news Steve. Still the best tactical level war game on earth. Thanks.

[Aragorn2002]

On 1/17/2020 at 6:31 AM, Battlefront.com said:

Totally understood.  We've definitely been able to reproduce the bug with some regularity.  It's not an "all the time, every time" thing, but it's definitely something that needs to be fixed as soon as we can.

Generally speaking, when a bug is pretty evident it's usually fixable without too much fuss.  What takes so much time is testing, verification, release, and post release.  The primary concern is since the game engine is in constant flux the more time that passes the more current and previous code diverges.  Since we don't rebuild and test each inactive game regularly alongside an active project (totally impractical to do that) it's entirely possible that something in the current code doesn't play well with another game.  Testing is the only way to know for sure, and if we do find something (happens more than you think) then that has to be fixed before release.  When we do put out a patch it's always a risk that we missed something like that.  When that happens a brand new patch, which cost us quite a bit of time to do, now has a new howl for fixing.  And then we're right back in the same position we were in before.  Perhaps worse in some people's eyes.

The only time we can make a "quick" patch is within days or a few weeks of a release.  In that case there's likely been little new work done to the game engine and that reassures us we can punt a patch out without too much risk of unintended consequences.  By the time this Bocage discussion really got going we were already outside of that window by months.  To put out a patch now is not quick or easy to do, so we've been waiting to amass more fixes before committing to a new patch.

It's a damned if we do (time + risk of more troubles), damned if we don't (customer annoyance) situation.  Nobody's happy with those.

Steve

 

 

Quite right. Just concentrate on Fire and Rubble and ignore anything else.

[Majick]

31 minutes ago, WhiteWolf65 said:

That is great news Steve. Still the best tactical level war game on earth. Thanks.

+1

[Vergeltungswaffe]

20 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Quite right. Just concentrate on Fire and Rubble and ignore anything else.

I'd be good with that.

[kohlenklau]

Special request:

Can the new CMRT Fire and Rubble module include the already modelled axis vehicles from CMFI's earlier July 1943 timeframe?

Just sweep them in as purchasable single vehicles, set the rarity as you deem appropriate. No TOE  concerns.

I am thinking of the Panzer III's (Ausf M and N) but there might be a few others. Krupp Protze also.

Please

Edited January 19, 2020 by kohlenklau

[Sequoia]

I can understand the desire to include them, but unless one provides documentation that a certain vehicle was operational in combat in the time frame of the family, Battlefront just won't do it. I recall in CMAK there was a vehicle type (I think it was a Pz III with a 37mm gun) that was removed in a patch because it was determined it never operated in North Africa. It was later reintroduced in a further patch when some one produced evidence it was. I don't know if the vehicles you mention qualify or not though I'm guessing the Protze does.

[kohlenklau]

In 5 years or so, I can apply for social security. The BFC principles, countable on one hand IIRC, are all older than me IIRC.

With all due respect, I figure we will not see another East Front release for CMX2 after Fire and Rubble. If we SOMEDAY see Kursk as CMX3 then does the CMX2 world slide off the edge like CMX1?

If we can get this special request granted to allow some scenarios to somewhat represent earlier timeframes, that will cover me before my next (last?) cardiac episode or first and final brush with oncology. 

Also, I just took a delve into partisan warfare and it seems Bagration was really the final end to that aspect of the Ost Front.

Partisans availability could be argued as linked to the date of the scenario and not be seen if beyond a few weeks after Bagration.

https://history.army.mil/html/books/104/104-19/CMH_Pub_104-19.pdf

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by kohlenklau

[IICptMillerII]

39 minutes ago, kohlenklau said:

In 5 years or so, I can apply for social security. The BFC principles, countable on one hand IIRC, are all older than me IIRC.

With all due respect, I figure we will not see another East Front release for CMX2 after Fire and Rubble. If we SOMEDAY see Kursk as CMX3 then does the CMX2 world slide off the edge like CMX1?

If we can get this special request granted to allow some scenarios to somewhat represent earlier timeframes, that will cover me before my next (last?) cardiac episode or first and final brush with oncology. 

Also, I just took a delve into partisan warfare and it seems Bagration was really the final end to that aspect of the Ost Front.

Partisans availability could be argued as linked to the date of the scenario and not be seen if beyond a few weeks after Bagration.

https://history.army.mil/html/books/104/104-19/CMH_Pub_104-19.pdf

 

Hang in there man! I'm sure you have more longevity than you give yourself credit for. 

On the bright side, now that the CMFI module is done, BFC has been freed up to develop Fire and Rubble and the other things they're working on. The CMFI module did quite a lot to hog development time and attention and slowed other projects down. In other words, the bottleneck on development has been cleared. 

As to the partisans, they will definitely be included in the Fire and Rubble module, though I have no idea how their availability will be handled yet. Could be that after a set date, or a location, they are not available for purchase/use, but that is just speculation on my part. Its important to remember that while the new module will focus on the end of the war, a lot of the assets being added were present during the Bagration timeframe as well. Just like how CMFB covers more than the Battle of the Bulge, even though that is its primary focus. 

[Aragorn2002]

On 1/18/2020 at 10:39 AM, WhiteWolf65 said:

That is great news Steve. Still the best tactical level war game on earth. 

And beyond.