Hunt interspersed with Fast or Quick?

[markshot]

Back in the day of CMBB/CMAK, you could use move to contact interspersed with run to do various things:

* Fast recon:  sprint ... slow pause look ... sprint slow pause look ...

* Conditional dash across open ground:  a short move to contact before a run.  If something spotted, the move to contact, short circuits the run.

Can I use hunt interspersed with fast or quick in the above fashions?

Thanks.

[Freyberg]

Yeah, they work great together - quick and fast to get you places, and hunt as a kind of insurance in case you take fire.

[A Canadian Cat]

Just know that in CM2 if they make contact that triggers during a hunt leg all the rest of the move orders after will be cancelled too. So, just don't get too invested in a lot of complex orders that you will be sad to loose

[landser]

Hunt is more like move to contact now. In CMx1 if I recall correctly, a hunt order didn't cancel. If the tank encountered an enemy and knocked it out, it would then continue on it's hunt movement.

[Thewood1]

And that CM1 hunt behavior has been sorely missed by me in CM2.

[SimpleSimon]

A hunt command more like a "Seek and Destroy" that will ignore distant contacts or events outside a set range would be pretty nice. 

[Erwin]

I may be getting confused with CM1 (that's a problem when you've played this game for too long) but IIRC a unit on HUNT with a covered arc will not stop if it sees an enemy outside of that arc.

[A Canadian Cat]

18 hours ago, SimpleSimon said:

A hunt command more like a "Seek and Destroy" that will ignore distant contacts or events outside a set range would be pretty nice. 

You can actually get that by giving the unit a cover arc (press the shift key so it is circular). With a cover arc the hunt command will only stop if the spotted enemy is inside the arc.

[Thewood1]

That I never knew.  Good tip.

[scrappie]

On 12/2/2019 at 9:58 PM, IanL said:

You can actually get that by giving the unit a cover arc (press the shift key so it is circular). With a cover arc the hunt command will only stop if the spotted enemy is inside the arc.

Wasn't aware of that either.  Although isn't that problematic for scouting using the hunt command?  You would typically give your scouts a short cover arc so they don't give away their position by firing, but would like them to stop once they see the enemy.

[Erwin]

IIRC a unit on HUNT that is fired upon will stop and take cover even if the enemy firing unit is outside of the covered arc. 

The unit on HUNT will ignore an enemy unit outside of its covered arc if the enemy is merely spotted.  So, it will proceed until fired upon (or an "explosive event" occurs nearby).

That is why it's usually prudent to have the unit on HUNT also have a HIDE command so it will stop and HIDE if fired upon.  That will usually enable the friendly unit to break contact.

[A Canadian Cat]

13 hours ago, scrappie said:

Wasn't aware of that either.  Although isn't that problematic for scouting using the hunt command?  You would typically give your scouts a short cover arc so they don't give away their position by firing, but would like them to stop once they see the enemy.

It can be. Normally with scouts I only give them sort move orders to get from one place of cover to another so I don't really want them stopping in the middle. In that case I am not using hunt. For recon in force I'll use hunt but no one has a cover arc cause I want them to engage when they spot the enemy.

That's how I would use it.

[c3k]

As others have alluded to, that HUNT command (with or without a TARGET ARC) has the potential to make your unit stop along that path. Stopping may not be the best thing. 

I'll use HUNT, a lot of times with an arc so that, for example, my unit will not continue into that building if the enemy is inside. Short HUNT paths in between QUICK keeps the unit moving but cancels the rest of the move if something unexpected pops up (within the arc, if used).

[Bulletpoint]

You don't really need to intersperse fast movement with slow movement for observation. I find my 2-man scout teams often spot distant enemies even while running through forest. Probably they get a little bonus to spotting if they are stationary, but it doesn't seem that important. Most spotting is done when enemies open fire anyway, not by sitting still for a long time. At long ranges, chances of spotting an unmoving AT gun are practically nil unless it fires.

For close terrain though, it's often a good idea to move in bounds and leave the scouts to spot for the remainder of each turn after moving. At close range, enemies can often be spotted without firing.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Bulletpoint

[markshot]

18 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

You don't really need to intersperse fast movement with slow movement for observation. I find my 2-man scout teams often spot distant enemies even while running through forest. Probably they get a little bonus to spotting if they are stationary, but it doesn't seem that important. Most spotting is done when enemies open fire anyway, not by sitting still for a long time. At long ranges, chances of spotting an unmoving AT gun are practically nil unless it fires.

For close terrain though, it's often a good idea to move in bounds and leave the scouts to spot for the remainder of each turn after moving. At close range, enemies can often be spotted without firing.

Definitely a graduate of the Patton school of recon. 

" Just drive down that road until you get blown up."

[Bulletpoint]

5 hours ago, markshot said:

Definitely a graduate of the Patton school of recon. 

" Just drive down that road until you get blown up."

I'm actually quite good at keeping my scouts alive, and they usually rejoin their squads later.

Remember that recon is basically about making sure there are in fact no enemies in areas where you are pretty sure there are no enemies.

[markshot]

I like keeping my scouts if it so happens, hidden, but with a good vantage point upon the battlefield.  I think the most valuable commodity in CM is information.  Mainly as most CM battles are designed to be winnable, and information is invaluable.  With that information, I lack borg spotting, but I can still position my armor to a flanking position.  All things being equal, it is still a huge advantage.  I can bring up an FO if the situation warrants it; quickly and safely.  Also, when enemy MGs and ATGs open up they are more likely to be spotted.

[Bil Hardenberger]

You can be very creative when it comes to planning movement.. but I have a few rules of thumb, maybe they will be useful... the following is from my Platoon Scouts post on my blog.  Hope this is helpful... more detail in that blog and in other posts on moving... I am a huge proponent of using Listening Halts, I have always had good luck with them.

Quote

Close Terrain:

When moving through woods or other very close terrain (like built up areas) I will often have many more than two scout teams in front of the platoon and the platoon will follow the scouts at a close distance (three or four action spots).  The rule of thumb is to try to maintain visual contact between your scouts and the leading elements of the platoon formation.

Use Hunt almost exclusively when scouting through close terrain.

The goal is to be able to scout the entire width of your movement zone and uncover any enemy presence well before the main body encounters it.  That will allow you time to determine a course of action with regards to that contact and keep you from blundering into an enemy ambush.

 

Quote

Open Terrain:

When moving through open terrain your scout teams can be fewer and more widely separated and the platoon main body will follow the scouts at a farther distance (ten action spots or more).  The same rule of thumb applies: to try to maintain visual contact between your scouts and the leading elements of the platoon formation, but in this case do not crowd them, allow the scouts to move far ahead to give your platoon main body more room to react to enemy contact.

Maintain proper movement procedures, complete with listening halts as you advance your scouts.  Movement can be at a faster pace than through close terrain, use short rushes (Fast) rather than Hunt, unless you suspect enemy contact is imminent.

 

[Cathrynn]

I've found that scouts used with the hunt and slow command work well; moving slowly to contact with plenty of pauses between waypoints has it's advantages.

 

 

[Erwin]

The tactic chosen also depends on scenario length.  Some scenarios give one a lot of time carefully recon and minimize casualties (which can be heavily penalized).  Most scenarios make one rush.  In those cases I have started running two man recons to the first likely cover as one doesn't have time to carefully recon from the start position when there may be no enemy for a couple hundred meters.

It's also good to have many 2-man recon teams doing this to quickly get a sense of where the enemy is and where he is not.  The problem is that CM2 limits how many times one can split a squad.  Usually one ends up with a 2-man team and a 5-7 man unsplittable tesam which is less useful.

[markshot]

Thanks, Bil.

Yes, it usually safe to assume that your setup zone is not already in contact with the enemy, and that you have some buffer before contact.  The question is, of course, how much?

---

More generally I would like to ask.  In RL, how were time constraints determined to for teams of soldiers and their given objective (at the CM scale)?

It seems to me in the history warfare few things were accomplished in the time frame planned.

[Combatintman]

@markshot Staff tables/planning norms and planning … an example of planning here:

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Combatintman

[markshot]

Thank you.

[Freyberg]

On 12/9/2019 at 5:07 PM, markshot said:

...it usually safe to assume that your setup zone is not already in contact with the enemy, ...

On some of the QB Attack and Assault maps, especially medium-sized ones, it is not at all safe to assume your setup zone is not in LOF of the enemy - first moves can be wild!!

[Bud Backer]

1 hour ago, Freyberg said:

On some of the QB Attack and Assault maps, especially medium-sized ones, it is not at all safe to assume your setup zone is not in LOF of the enemy - first moves can be wild!!

True. Even on some large maps there can be sightlines that allow for some entertaining long range gunnery practice. Now with a nice 88 that is a gift indeed.