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mjkerner

Where are the Goumiers in djellaba?

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I checked the French uniform folders after my usual new game/module brz exploding session, and there are no Goumiers in the traditional djellaba/robe.  To double check, I went through all the months/years in the scenario editor, and none showed up.  (French forces only show from November '43 through July '44.) In fact, there is no Algerian or Moroccan infantry unit listed, just "vanilla" French battalions and other units. (Adrian helmets are neat, though!) And the Manual doesn't mention them as part of the Free French.

So, do we not have them, and if not, will we get them in a patch or somefink?

 

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Plans for Goumiers had been dropped from the module early on. I can't recall why but it involved game engine conflicts of one sort or another. Something about TO&E subunits not being allowed separate soldier models? I dunno, it went over my head at the time and I'm probably misremembering, but the upshot is they wanted Goumiers but couldn't have them without breaking TO&E structure... or something like that.

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Sorry guys, they were cut way back in 2016 in an effort to get this thing done.  A few other things were cut at the same time and not added back in when we picked up development again after CMSF2 was released.  I double checked our webpages and didn't see any mention of them, but maybe I missed a spot?

For the record, Goumiers were cut because they required new models, textures, and tailored TO&E.  As we were already struggling with the totality of such force specific customizations we decided a line needed to be drawn or we'd never get the dang'd thing done.  Even with the cuts it seemed like we'd never finish.  But we did!

Steve

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Dang, MikeyD ninja'd me :)

And yeah, an added complication is that CM2's code was never designed to have more than one unique soldier model set within a particular branch, but also the game isn't set up to have otherwise redundant branches (e.g. "Infantry") for the same nation.  There are workarounds, but they are extremely ugly and very brittle.  The two exceptions where we felt we had to do it are US Airborne (Para and Glider) and Panzergrenadier (wrap uniform and standard infantry uniform).  Two different workarounds, both suck for us to implement/maintain.  On top of everything else, making another bloody workaround was not a good idea.

Steve

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Thanks Steve and MikeyD.  There was a picture of what appeared to be a homemade mod in one of the FI threads a few weeks back that I think is what Zulu1966 referenced.  I might have to resurrect and finish my attempt at modding them that I started 5 years ago!

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1 hour ago, sburke said:

yeah and to note our French tester representative was pretty upset.  We all were looking forward to that one, but sadly it didn't make the cut.

I'm pretty upset too, if it adds anything.

 

5 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

And yeah, an added complication is that CM2's code was never designed to have more than one unique soldier model set within a particular branch, but also the game isn't set up to have otherwise redundant branches (e.g. "Infantry") for the same nation.

Guess we know what's going to be worked on for CM3x.

Edited by Frenchy56

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35 minutes ago, Frenchy56 said:

Guess we know what's going to be worked on for CM3x.

You got that right!  Whatever we do next will learn from what we did before.  The CM2 uniform/soldier stuff has gone through several major revisions over the years, but inherently it's tied to a system that was up for all the challenges we've wound up throwing at it.  R2V stressed out that system more than anything else we ever did.  Needless to say, that's left an impression on us!

Steve

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1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said:

You got that right!  Whatever we do next will learn from what we did before.  The CM2 uniform/soldier stuff has gone through several major revisions over the years, but inherently it's tied to a system that was up for all the challenges we've wound up throwing at it.  R2V stressed out that system more than anything else we ever did.  Needless to say, that's left an impression on us!

Steve

Good to know you got that. Hopefully in-game models will have variations that aren't just textures and reflect the actual ranks of the soldiers! And actual variations in the ranks as well (I remember someone saying the ranks are hard-coded into each formation, and I believe them). Maybe a numbering system for AFVs or other vehicles in a formation. I'd be absolutely delighted by that, even more if it's moddable.

Edited by Frenchy56

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1 minute ago, Sequoia said:

Are we talking about the Goumiers models someone posted screen shots of just two weeks ago?

Yeah. However everyone just forgot that they weren't mentioned at all in the store TO&E page.

Edited by Frenchy56

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9 hours ago, zulu1966 said:

I thought I saw screenshots of them in one of the bone threads ?

Goumiers were noted in the 2015 Christmas Bones thread as expected to come in the Rome to Victory module thusly:

"The following services will be added: British Indian Army, South Africa, French Expeditionary Corps (including Moroccan Goumiers), and Waffen-SS. Of course, existing services will be filled out with all of the new formations that have been created for other Combat Mission titles since the last Fortress Italy module released: Gebirgsjäger units, Luftwaffe Field Divisions, flamethrower units, etc. All currently existing formations will be updated to 1945 TO&E. Also: US Mountain units. :)"  (Emphasis added).

The full thread is here: 

There was a screenshot, but I took it to have been associated with the Indian Army rather than Goumiers.

Naturally BFC is free to cut potential features as they see fit for technical reasons or any other reasons.  I'm not intending to complain.  I located and linked to the prior thread simply because I wanted to confirm I wasn't imagining my recollection that Goumiers were once expected to appear in the module.  (Long before the thread that started a couple of weeks ago).

Edited by Rokossovski

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I'll be working on one after I get to the SF2 British uniforms I didn't finish last Spring. There are a lot more option with skins and whatnot with the release of R2V.

Edit: Loaded my old one form years ago into R2V and it works!  But this is a mod to the British uniforms.  Need to do it with the French.

edited-image.jpg

 

Edited by mjkerner

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@Rokossovski You seem to be a very polite, helpful kind of fellow. Although I can't help but notice that you appear to be in need of a good haircut, and a close shave. I know an excellent barbering establishment in Whitehall, and have taken the liberty of making a booking for you on January 30th in the New Year.

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1 hour ago, Warts 'n' all said:

 [Snip] . . . I can't help but notice that you appear to be in need of a good haircut, and a close shave. I know an excellent barbering establishment in Whitehall, and have taken the liberty of making a booking for you on January 30th in the New Year.

Very kind of you, but I already tried that establishment almost 371 years ago, and found the shave to be . . . excessive.  Pro tip I learned: do not frequent a barber who uses an axe. 

By the way, isn't Whitehall very near Westminster Hall? I believe your hairstyle was seen there for many years (displayed on a pike, if memory serves).

Edited by Rokossovski

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17 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

Sorry guys, they were cut way back in 2016 in an effort to get this thing done.  A few other things were cut at the same time and not added back in when we picked up development again after CMSF2 was released.  I double checked our webpages and didn't see any mention of them, but maybe I missed a spot?

For the record, Goumiers were cut because they required new models, textures, and tailored TO&E.  As we were already struggling with the totality of such force specific customizations we decided a line needed to be drawn or we'd never get the dang'd thing done.  Even with the cuts it seemed like we'd never finish.  But we did!

Steve

Disappointing.

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3 hours ago, Rokossovski said:

Very kind of you, but I already tried that establishment almost 371 years ago, and found the shave to be . . . excessive.  Pro tip I learned: do not frequent a barber who uses an axe. 

By the way, isn't Whitehall very near Westminster Hall? I believe your hairstyle was seen there for many years (displayed on a pike, if memory serves).

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. That was brilliant! 

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