units running from cover

[passpatrik]

Hello friends from Battlefront,

i have purchased Shock Force (base game) and im going through single missions.

I often have problem with units behavior, which is manifested by running out of cover. Im familiar with Combat Misiion mechanics of chain of order and morale. My units are in safe spot, under command, and with regular, even crack skill. Still, very often few seconds after enemy small arms fire, they decide to run from building to open space and get slaughtered. They arent panicked or routed, if they survive enemy turn with small casualities or without them, i can override their movement command and bring them back. Good scenario for testing this condition is for example Ambush in Al Fubar and U.S. side. 

My question: Am i missing some a.i. update, or should i install campaigns update, if my purchased version of the game is game engine 4 and V2.02 ? Thank you in advance and sorry for my lame foreign English.  Patrik

[professionalXMAZ]

i came here to discuss this issue. in the ambush in al fubar or whatever, my US soldiers are panicking and running from the ambush zone, right into their guns. It's happening every time.

[MikeyD]

Only fanatics in the game would be willing to die in place (and yes, you can set troop morale to 'fanatic'). Pixeltruppen really do not like being fired on by multiple units at once or receiving incoming fire from an unknown source. They also don't like being targeted by 7.62 machineguns. They're also not fans of large explosions in their midst. If you protect them from these things your pixeltruppen should be alright.

[Freyberg]

On 10/22/2019 at 5:52 AM, passpatrik said:

...very often few seconds after enemy small arms fire, they decide to run from building to open space and get slaughtered. They arent panicked or routed, ...

If you give a unit a 'pause' order, it will stay where it is unless it becomes panicked.

I do this quite often to make units hold their ground.

[domfluff]

A "safe spot" where they are taking casualties is not a safe spot, by definition.

It might still be better than running into the street, of course, that's an AI/map geometry thing. Especially in complex terrain this is always going to be a little suspect. The key to an ambush is overwhelming firepower - you want all of the fire to be heading in one direction, all at the same time. That typically means short covered arcs. Typically I'll set very short arcs to hold fire and open up manually with the Target command to maximise this.

[professionalXMAZ]

@domfluff @MikeyD @Freyberg

like I said, in ambush at al fubar, my infantry has been consistently running from cover without taking any casualties, into the street where they get cut down. I can replicate this almost at will. It's been 1/7 times where they did not break from cover and get slaughtered in the street on turn one.

please don't try to tell me american infantry would do something this stupid. it's AI behavior issues, not realism.  95 americans died in Phantom Fury and zero squads panicked and ran out of a building into the street during a firefight they were winning.

I've even provided a set of screens from when I just replicated this yet again a couple minutes ago.

https://imgur.com/a/rsj3DJf

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by professionalXMAZ

[Wicky]

Can you put a save file up? so folk can examine disposition, orders and pace that toops are dashing about following.

[mjkerner]

Coming out of lurk mode (I lost my CMx2 mojo big time months ago and just can't find it anywhere! Any of you seen it?  Police were no help...). Anyway, proXMAZ, I just gave it a shot--twice. My guys didn't run on Turn 1 on either of the two first turns, but if they had, they would most likely have headed East, right down that road, across the river, and into their compatriots' arms, just like your pictures show them starting to do. That's because the East side has been designated by the designer/author as the US friendly side.  That's where panicked or otherwise AI-displacing troops generally head for--the designated friendly side.  It doesn't seem a bug (unless the fact that they are even displacing under those circumstances could be considered a bug) so much as a scenario design issue.  After all, there are Unfriendlies in between the ambushed force and the apparent safety across the bridge, so following AI protocol they will run them right past the bad guys.  And as far as panicking, considering they are scouts, on the bad guy side of a river, with 3 Strykers KIA and the surviving one immobilized, that's not too much of a stretch.

[professionalXMAZ]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cehyjboy4d9wsx4/Ambush in al Fubar 001.bts?dl=0

[professionalXMAZ]

@mjkerner  yep, that's exactly where they're running, the game mechanics are what they are.

with respect, I think it's unrealistic for an american infantry element to break while winning a firefight, when they have friendlies in buildings around them, haven't taken casualties or more than a couple seconds of incoming rifle fire - and attempt to sprint down the street through an insurgent ambush.  my pixeltruppen are winning when they run.  

[mjkerner]

I would generally agree, proXMAZ.  Btw, did you upload the right file?  I loaded it twice, and the p-truppen never moved from their positions either time?!?!?

[MOS:96B2P]

1 hour ago, mjkerner said:

Coming out of lurk mode (I lost my CMx2 mojo big time months ago and just can't find it anywhere! Any of you seen it?  Police were no help...). 

How about now?  That help?   Glad to see you back.    

Back on topic. 

1 hour ago, mjkerner said:

the East side has been designated by the designer/author as the US friendly side.  That's where panicked or otherwise AI-displacing troops generally head for--the designated friendly side.  

+1  This is probably a significant part of the reason.