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Bulletpoint

Inf guns show 'out of contact' despite good comms

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In a scenario I'm building, I have deployed 4 on-map infantry guns. They all have green dots in all levels of C2 up to Battalion commander.

However, when I choose any distant HQ and try to plot a fire mission, I get "out of contact" for the 4 guns. Even when I select the Battalion commander himself.

Edited by Bulletpoint

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1 hour ago, Bulletpoint said:

In a scenario I'm building, I have deployed 4 on-map infantry guns. They all have green dots in all levels of C2 up to Battalion commander.

However, when I choose any distant HQ and try to plot a fire mission, I get "out of contact" for the 4 guns. Even when I select the Battalion commander himself.

I recall having the same problem in a qb. I think they are for direct fire only. purchasing them for offboard is the only fix in know if possible.

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I've had a problem with out-of-contact on-map mortars where the problem was the mortars didn't have a nearby radio. If you have a HQ unit with a radio  try parking him close to see if they start using his radio. Or maybe a Jeep/Kubelwagen w radio out of the HQ section.

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5 hours ago, grungar said:

I recall having the same problem in a qb. I think they are for direct fire only. purchasing them for offboard is the only fix in know if possible.

that explains it. While in fact german infantry guns are high angle howitzers mainly used for indirect fires, CM maps are usually too small to implement onboard indirect fire for them. But one can always purchase offboard IG18 and IG33 version from Arty menu. Same for any other longer range stuff like Wespe´s or 120mm mortars (which aren´t available for onmap anyway).

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I solved it:

I had originally put the fire support company commander next to the guns to provide comms. He has a radio, so comms buttons showed all green. I thought that would be enough.

But calling for fire support only works if it's the platoon commander of the infantry gun platoon sitting next to them.

Edited by Bulletpoint

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In CMBN 4.02 I just did some very interesting test with german regimental support gun Coy, having both on map 75mm guns and some offboard 150mm (left unused for the test). Placed the 75 at the base of a crest so they wouldn´t have direct LOS to intended target beyond and the Coy commander (serving as spotter) on top of that crest in command range. In fact the onboard guns can be called as indirect fire assets but with some weird results. Did choose an indirect fire target just the Coy commander could see at ranges of between 1000 and 3000 meters. (map is shooting range sort of size 500x3500m) Fire missions called were "Heavy", "General purpose" (and/or anti personnel in case of start game fire mission) and "short" (for duration). What I´d expected to see was max ROF, short duration at intended target. What I got instead was slow ROF (1-2 rounds a turn at max) delivered at up to 10 minutes with point fire accuracy. And I mean point fire accuracy as the rounds all landed just few meters (1 to 5 meters maybe, always same AS) distance at target, oftenly hitting the craters from previous shots. That independent from range (up to 3000 m ). :o The gun and crew animations were also misleading as at present angles, they´d have delivered the shots straight into the crest, or blowing the Coy commander HQ spotter to pieces. But I take that as animation issue (or limitation) so that one can be left aside. Internally shooting angles (likely in ~50 to 80° range) seem to be computed correctly.

For comparison I purchased an additional pair of 75 IG18 from offboard Arty assets and repeated the test. Here results were normal, with ROF excepted (still somewhat low). Spread pattern at target was rather normal with more on the longitude and less in latitude (~50x10m ellipse maybe). Same spotter, same targets. From my manuals "practical" ROF for 75mm IG18 should be 10-12 rounds/minute, while in game it was 3-4 at max with same "Heavy" & "Short" setting. :huh:

conclude (or cheat)

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18 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

What I got instead was slow ROF (1-2 rounds a turn at max) delivered at up to 10 minutes with point fire accuracy. And I mean point fire accuracy as the rounds all landed just few meters (1 to 5 meters maybe, always same AS) distance at target, oftenly hitting the craters from previous shots. That independent from range (up to 3000 m ). :o

Sounds like somebody mixed up the accuracy values etc. from one of the modern games with WW2.

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12 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Sounds like somebody mixed up the accuracy values etc. from one of the modern games with WW2.

no idea. I´ll make an additional test with other onboard guns ( howitzers is the correct term) like maybe US 75mm pack howitzers and see what happens. Either it´s a general problem, or related to particular guns (or maybe some odd spotter - onboard gun relation).  IIRC there´s also no "firing for effect" radio message coming, like it does for offboard assets. This indicates that onboard guns are trapped in sort of a "spotting rounds" circle, also indicated by the slow ROF and long duration. Judging from spotters perfect LOS to target area  (flat, grassy map), FFE should have commenced after 1-2 spotting rounds at max.

@Bulletpoint did you refer to german WW2 infantry guns btw? Just noticed later the thread is in General Discussion, not any the WW2 titles. So I assumed (prematurely) you mean german IG´s.

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1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

@Bulletpoint did you refer to german WW2 infantry guns btw? Just noticed later the thread is in General Discussion, not any the WW2 titles. So I assumed (prematurely) you mean german IG´s.

Yes, you are correct. IG 18 howitzers.

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Sooooo.... after half a dozen testing rounds I found the same behaviors for on- and offboard US 75mm pack howitzers (from airborne tab). Low ROF, on the spot accuracy while the on map guns are beeing positioned behind a crest with no direct LOS/LOF. Offboard is rather normal spread pattern, but again fairly low ROF (Heavy). Same spotter, same target. Minimum fire range though is somewhat larger than compared to german IG18 and is ~2400m. If that is from the crest or the guns minimum fire range for indirect I can´t tell.

On another row of tests I´d placed an occupied wooden pillbox on the map, roughly where I plotted previous fire missions on empty map (about 2400m away from spotter and guns). Results are fairly the same. With "target vehicle" on board mission set (Heavy, Short), spotting round procedure went normal and after reporting FFE on radio about 5-8 shots (out of 20) hit the pillbox directly. Germans in pillbox got a number of wounded and on another ocassion just 1 survivor was left in. The wooden pillbox never got destroyed from the number of direct hits (which I find a bit surprising).

Same mission with 4 gun offboard 75mm pack howitzer battery (just 2 guns selected=multi, Heavy, Short). Spread pattern was rather normal and way more inaccurate. At best about 1-2 direct hits could be achieved while the misson spent ~20 rounds from both guns (spotting rounds excluded).

So when taken as game "feature" it´s a nice cheat to achieve superior hit probability on rather small targets far away and with guns hidden from enemy. Only drawback is the very low ROF for both, german 75mm IG 18 and US 75mm pack howitzer.

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