T-84 APS

[zmoney]

Do the Ukrainian T-84 tanks only have one round of APS does anyone know. Playing the Shield of Kiev campaign and had a tank go to close to a building. The tank intercepted one rpg round but another one hit the reactive armor. Wasn’t sure if the T-84 only has one or if my tank was angled the wrong way for the second round. I read somewhere that the Russian/ Ukrainian APS only works frontally.

 

I also seemed to notice the APS system wasn’t showing up in the equipment list after it fired its one shot.

[A Canadian Cat]

No, they should have more. The way APS is handled in the game is abstracted. Instead of tracking the charges left in each launcher the APS is tracked as if there was one launcher with X number of charges. Note I'm call them charges - I have no idea if that really is appropriate. This gives an advantage to the APS equipped vehicle. After a charge is used there is a reset time where APS is no longer available - it is not a lone time but is long enough for there to be an opportunity to get a hit in. That vulnerability is for that single abstracted launcher - which give an advantage to the attacker.

Also APS is not "sure fire", sometimes there is a miss other times the hit is to close for safety that can cause damage - including to the APS system.

So in your example the second round could have gotten through via luck or because it hit during the down time window. Your vehicle should still have an APS entry even if it is out of ammo. It will go grey during the downtime and will stay grey if it is out of charges. If it gets damaged it will show the coloured icon up to a red X to show it is no longer serviceable.

It is possible for equipment to drop off the list for a vehicle. The list of equipment can be long and is listed in some kind of priority order. If systems are damaged they bubble to the top. So, when a vehicle with a long list sustains damage the list of equipment can appear to change because low priority display items that are damage jump up to the top which forces some working item that normally would be shown to be pushed off the bottom of the list.

[Rinaldi]

Thinking out loud but was this a few missions into the campaign? Shield of Kiev doesn't have resupplies at all during its course (making preserving your BTR-4Es even more paramount) I imagine that extends to APS. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Rinaldi

[IMHO]

On 9/9/2019 at 6:04 PM, IanL said:

After a charge is used there is a reset time where APS is no longer available

Are you speaking of IRL or it's modeled this way in CM as well?

[A Canadian Cat]

3 hours ago, IMHO said:

Are you speaking of IRL or it's modeled this way in CM as well?

It is modeled that way in the game. I actually don't know much about how it works IRL.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

2 hours ago, IanL said:

It is modeled that way in the game. I actually don't know much about how it works IRL.

IRL there is no such tank. 

The closest approximations are in Thailand.

[IMHO]

2 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

IRL there is no such tank. 

The closest approximations are in Thailand.

1. I meant is an APS rearm delay is modelled in APS or not?

2. Thai Oplots are not an approximation - they ARE T-84s, improved mod. Official designation is T-84BM. Few pieces of the base model were built as well. So T-84 did exist IRL albeit in extra low numbers.

Edited September 12, 2019 by IMHO

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Do they have APS?

[IMHO]

23 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Do they have APS?

No. There was an R&D for passive system called Varta - smoke grenade launcher triggered by LWR not a radar. If I remember correctly it didn't even get to IR blocking smoke grenades. Grenades were setting IR transparent smoke screen and that kind of defied the very purpose of the system. I don't know but I doubt Thai Oplots have Varta.

Edited September 12, 2019 by IMHO

[Sgt.Squarehead]

What happened to Zaslon?

[Haiduk]

35 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

What happened to Zaslon?

The technolodgy of light version of Zaslon - Zaslon-L sold to Turkey. They already implemented it in own APS system Pulat AKS by Aselsan for M60A3 Sabra

Edited September 12, 2019 by Haiduk

[Haiduk]

4 hours ago, IMHO said:

 I don't know but I doubt Thai Oplots have Varta.

This is photo from Thailand army parade. Varta system is present. Formally, this is slightly improved Shtora - it has more wide spectre range.

 

10 hours ago, IMHO said:

Official designation is T-84BM. Few pieces of the base model were built as well. So T-84 did exist IRL albeit in extra low numbers.

T-84 index no more in use. BM Oplot for Ukraine, BM Oplot-T for Thailand. T-84 relates only for 10 tanks produced in 2001. Five of them now in service, one - in military academy, four sold to USA. Pakistan's T-80UD partially are "hybrides" between this model and T-84.

[Haiduk]

14 hours ago, IanL said:

It is modeled that way in the game. I actually don't know much about how it works IRL.

The time before next charge can be triggered after previous is 15 seconds.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Haiduk

[A Canadian Cat]

52 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

The time before next charge can be triggered after previous is 15 seconds.

IRL?

In game I am pretty sure it is faster than that. Mind you I have really only investigated it on M1s - if you fire at an M1 from a launcher capable of firing a volley of two ,the second missile either just makes it through or is just caught by the Trophy APS system. So the cycle times in game for the Trophy systems are a lot faster than 15s. I just assumed that all the APS systems in the game were pretty much the same. Having written this, I see that is not good. Has anyone tested firing volley missiles at various APS systems in the game?

[Haiduk]

37 minutes ago, IanL said:

IRL?

In game I am pretty sure it is faster than that. Mind you I have really only investigated it on M1s - if you fire at an M1 from a launcher capable of firing a volley of two ,the second missile either just makes it through or is just caught by the Trophy APS system. So the cycle times in game for the Trophy systems are a lot faster than 15s. I just assumed that all the APS systems in the game were pretty much the same. Having written this, I see that is not good. Has anyone tested firing volley missiles at various APS systems in the game?

Developments of actions in CM warfare much more fastrer, than in the real world, so I think shortening time of APS recharging can have a sense, as well as time of artillery call, but despite it it should be fixed to the real time. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Haiduk

[IMHO]

4 hours ago, Haiduk said:

This is photo from Thailand army parade. Varta system is present. Formally, this is slightly improved Shtora - it has more wide spectre range.

Thanks - your info is ever impeccable! Does Varta use IR tranparent or IR masking smoke as of now?

[IMHO]

3 hours ago, IanL said:

IRL?

In Real Life

[A Canadian Cat]

LOL. I did know what it stood for. I was trying to ask: did you mean in real life?

I can see how it could have been interpreted as what does IRL mean?

[Rinaldi]

Yeah the tandem fires are a mixed bag in my experience - both giving and receiving. When they work, they work very well, though the 2nd shot usually goes flying off course or is too quick behind the first to penetrate APS.

[Haiduk]

21 hours ago, IMHO said:

Thanks - your info is ever impeccable! Does Varta use IR tranparent or IR masking smoke as of now?

Manufacturer of smoke grenades GD-1 for Varta claims the smoke protects the tank from laser beams and from detection in IR diapason. But laser beam protection is effective only against ammunitions, which use laser guiding by the "spot on target": http://ndikhp.com.ua/granata-dimova-aerozol-na-gd-1/?lang=uk

[Oleg]

On 9/8/2019 at 11:06 PM, zmoney said:

Do the Ukrainian T-84 tanks only have one round of APS does anyone know. Playing the Shield of Kiev campaign and had a tank go to close to a building. The tank intercepted one rpg round but another one hit the reactive armor. Wasn’t sure if the T-84 only has one or if my tank was angled the wrong way for the second round. I read somewhere that the Russian/ Ukrainian APS only works frontally.

 

I also seemed to notice the APS system wasn’t showing up in the equipment list after it fired its one shot.

IRL ukrainian APS has 2 charges per module, second charge is being deployed instantly after first is expended. You can install as many number of modules on a vehicle as you wish, but realistic number is 2 modules per side, so 4 charges for each side. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

That is Zaslon and AFAIK it is not what is modeled in CM:BS as Ukrainian APS. 

[IMHO]

16 hours ago, Oleg said:

IRL ukrainian APS has 2 charges per module

IRL there's no such thing as Ukrainian APS. Ukrainian company Mikrotek came into possession of the design documents from the Soviet program dated to 80s and manufactured a couple of test samples based on it. Zaslon has been officially "accepted" into Ukrainian service ten years ago yet we've seen not a single fielding of it. Even show case tank parade armor does not have it. The only point where Ukrainian alternative reality somehow found place in real life was when Ukrain resold this Soviet-era design docs to Turkey. NOT the APS itself but mere design docs.

[IMHO]

As an example here's an image of the Soviet Dozhd APS. See any differences with "Ukrainian" APS?

[Erwin]

The UKR versions has a carrying handle(?) on its side, so clearly vastly superior.