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Here is What I Dont Understand about BF?

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this is the same person who says NYTimes is 'fake news' if I'm not mistaken.  Perhaps he knows things we don't, like from Alex Jones, and this is a hint guiding us to the secret world of the truth

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Don't know if right now is the time to be defending the NYT. Back to topic I would also like to express my amazement that a simple campaign system...mastered so long ago in SP...isn't available.

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On 9/15/2019 at 1:37 PM, Michael Emrys said:

AAAARGH!!! I hope not. RT is a non-starter for me.

:o

Michael

 I would be more in favor of dumping RT in favor of WEGO only . Por Favor

Edited by J Bennett
possible misunderstanding

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On 9/17/2019 at 8:59 PM, benpark said:

When one person says something to another person, then they in turn say something to another, and so on. By the last person, the result is a tangle of the original.

A fun game, but ultimately meaningless.

On the contrary, I do believe the purpose is to teach people not to rely on hearsay information.

A valuable lesson in any age.

 

Also, my own +1 on getting rid of real-time play.
It seems to add no value to the simulation whatsoever from my own observations of Let's Play's involving real time play, and even artificially reduces the situational awareness of the player.
To me, the core value of the game is the ability to observe, analyze, and interpret. It's not just about flashing lights and fancy sounds.

If you are going to make a game, make a game.
If you are going to simulate, then simulate.

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On 9/19/2019 at 5:36 PM, landser said:

My posts made me wonder if the GoG version is cool with Battlefront? I haven't been around much and I would temper (edit: or remove) my comments if perhaps there's any contention there.

No. We coordinated it with GoG. It was being sold there without our permission. When I found that out they pulled it down and we came to to terms to offer it through them ourselves. So, it's all good. 

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12 minutes ago, BFCElvis said:

No. We coordinated it with GoG. It was being sold there without our permission. When I found that out they pulled it down and we came to to terms to offer it through them ourselves. So, it's all good. 

Cheers for that. Feared I had put foot in mouth, but 76mm and yourself have set it straight.

I'm wondering if 76mm and/or Dynaman had any luck getting the resolution squared away?

I see Steel Panthers getting mentions. This was my first wargame all those years ago. It's the same on the Matrix boards for War in the East/West. So many of us cut our teeth on that game. Any CMer's play War in the East/West? Over the past year I've played through three WitE grand campaigns, and whenever I shudder at the micro in another battalion sized CM campaign, I think of the Grigsby games and realize it could be worse :)

My preference is for tactical wargaming, especially COmbat Mission, but on the grand operational scale it's hard to beat War in the East in my view.

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1 hour ago, General Jack Ripper said:

On the contrary, I do believe the purpose is to teach people not to rely on hearsay information.

A valuable lesson in any age.

That was my point.

Where did Steve say they were getting rid of WEGO? Or...did someone in this thread posit it as a personal hypothetical? I like both WEGO and RT, if we are taking a poll. It's a ultimately a meaningless exercise, as we do indeed currently have both.

"Getting rid of RT" or WEGO would require such a massive redo of the code that the game would be on hold for years to take away something. It was built in from the start. Why would they reverse this trend?

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I seem to dimly recall from posts pre-2007 that the basic engine is RT only. WEGO just pauses the RT engine every 60 seconds and adds the replay feature.

personnaly I never play RT, WEGO only for me.

Edited by Sgt Joch

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51 minutes ago, benpark said:

That was my point.

Where did Steve say they were getting rid of WEGO? Or...did someone in this thread posit it as a personal hypothetical? I like both WEGO and RT, if we are taking a poll. It's a ultimately a meaningless exercise, as we do indeed currently have both.

"Getting rid of RT" or WEGO would require such a massive redo of the code that the game would be on hold for years to take away something. It was built in from the start. Why would they reverse this trend?

IIRC I initiated that discussion though my suggestion was parting the engine, not getting rid of one or the other. My main concern was (and still is) that RT hinders further development of more time critical game engine advancements (i.e  pathing and TacAI), for the sake of performance. Not everybody has a top notch computer, but I´d sacrifice a 1 minute turn WEGO taking 2-3 minutes to complete, instead of having any RT game running smoothly but lacking possibly more advanced functionality. It´s a theory of mine, but at last just Steve/BFC can tell. Better be king in WEGO than just a competitor in RT market and lagging far behind with that. All IMHO. :blink:

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But RT isn't in nascent development- it's been this way since the beginning. So it isn't slowing down anything- it is the concept. Both are possible. Without one, there is no other.

As to lagging behind- behind what? I can't see another game out there that even holds a challenge to the full spectrum of what this engine offers. Let me know, if so. I've been trapped in here for a long time.

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1 hour ago, benpark said:

As to lagging behind- behind what? I can't see another game out there that even holds a challenge to the full spectrum of what this engine offers. Let me know, if so. I've been trapped in here for a long time.

Of course I can understand why people like CMx2, but I certainly wouldn't call it "full spectrum".  Looking at my favorite theater, the Eastern front, it is ridiculously "narrow spectrum"--a few months with a subset of units on a limited part of the front.  I would call CMx2 Hi-Fidelity, Narrow Spectrum. 

SP, ASL, and yes, CMBB are far more full-spectrum than CMx2 and that's why I'm going back to them; well, that and the fact that I just find them more fun.  All of these games are what I would call Medium Fidelity, Very High Spectrum.  And I'm fine with that...

Edited by 76mm

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2 hours ago, landser said:

I'm wondering if 76mm and/or Dynaman had any luck getting the resolution squared away?

More or less; the resolution with the GoG version is better than what I could get without it, and acceptable, but I still can't get full-width 1920x1080 without at least slight stretching.  The stretching is especially noticeable and I will have to see if I prefer playing with no stretching and a narrower window or slight stretching and full-width.

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It takes a long time unfortunatelly but ones complete... CM pretty much is 'full spectrum' imho...

The russian front...Most certainly not !

But the western front and Italy (soon) pretty much is 'full spectrum' i have to say...The flexibility and possibilities here are second to none.

I do my fair bit of complaining and wishlisting ...i'm not denying it 😎 and I want more of these games and i want an improved game engine...soonish

But to be honest...CM is still holding up pretty well.

Latest 'proof' of this imo is the new Close Combat game...An entirely NEW game-engine and all...After having watched the youtube videos of this NEW game i'm somewhat dissapointed.

I was hoping that this would be a serious competitor to CM...But i don't think it will be... Things like graphics, game play, realism and 'spectrum' does not loook like an improvement compared to CM...It might still be a decent game though and i will most certainly give it a try....But better then CM...No i don't think soo..

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, benpark said:

But RT isn't in nascent development- it's been this way since the beginning. So it isn't slowing down anything- it is the concept. Both are possible. Without one, there is no other.

As to lagging behind- behind what? I can't see another game out there that even holds a challenge to the full spectrum of what this engine offers. Let me know, if so. I've been trapped in here for a long time.

Basic concept is and was not in doubt, just its applicapility with regard to performance and further development of more time consuming (for general game performance) and advanced simulation aspects which are needed and demanded by many. You can only stick soo many time critical computation parts into a RT game whithout it suffering in performance and frame rates. At least counts for the current game engine and its limitations. I don´t see any those issues in WEGO as most simulation parts will be baked into the recording of the turn replay.

RT warsim competiton and full spectrum? I don´t throw in names here as it´s not my main point. Latest of the competitors run on 64 Bit, likely multi core support and what else not, so it´s comparing apples with oranges. Current CMX2 game engine surely can´t compete and "full spectrum" is of value only if you´ve an interface, as well as features (game feedback) that allows preserving an overview when dealing with all the RT stuff going on the same time. Matter of preference and mine instead of confusing clickfests is more closely watching multiple parts of my favorite warmovie which only WEGO and turn replay can provide me.

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RT is there for new players, who are used to mainstream tactics games -- which are mostly RT. CM's WEGO takes some time to wrap a neophyte's brain around. Now I play Iron, WEGO, only. However, I played my first tutorial on Normal, RT.

It's fair to say that "spectrum" and "fidelity" are inversely proportional to each-other. Narrower scope means less details to focus on, wider scope means more abstraction. It's always a compromise. Some games strike a better rate of exchange than others, but it really depends on what you value more.

Didn't know old CM games were on GOG. I'll probably pick them up -- well worth the 8 CAD.

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To where would the extra 64bit calculations best go in your estimation? To what most pressing issue? Are you fairly certain that is the actual solution to that problem?

Here is an example of the "my issue" blinders, with myself as an example- Load times are a big issue for me. My Mac (64bit in CM Mac) loaded maps fairly quickly, but I am mainly doing CM stuff on my PC. I just upgraded my computer. Same GPU card, same memory, the whole deal was the same- except the processor (so, a full redo). That was from an i7 to an i9. I loaded a particularly large map in 1/3rd the time as before the upgrade- the difference was absolutely the processor. That is an area I particularly cared about, which was solved by an approach from another angle than it being 64bit (Engine code redo! Long time out for Charles.). The game can catch up to using the power when you give it a task in that regard.

So the functionality of one area or another would need to expanded to target these areas of extra computational ability- that needs to be built. So, where does it go? And are you (the developer) willing to jettison some customers (new architecture, wargamers aren't known for having the most contemporary OS's), AND a complete rewrite of code? When people already are impatient for more product? Maybe it's worth it in that particular area.

As far as "spectrum" goes- I wasn't referencing the theaters covered, I was referencing the engine itself. Theaters have to do with personal preference- I don't speak to that, as that's all up to you. CM games come with an editor, a map editor, quick battles, scenarios and campaigns. And the engine is capable of delivering (in the vast majority of cases) results that are in keeping with historical data and period observations and testing. And the games make things (at the very least) informative. Other games may offer some, none, or all (don't yet know that last one) of those features. But do they do it...well?

Edited by benpark

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I'm reminded of that joke at the beginning of the old film 'Annie Hall'

Quote

Two elderly women are at a Catskills mountain resort,
and one of 'em says: "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible."
The other one says, "Yeah, I know, and such small portions!"

That seems to be some people's attitude toward CM. For all that they claim to 'hate' the product they keep returning, keep playing and keep demanding more. CM2 is a mature game engine, BFC's not going to make the effort to add any significant new bells & whistles to it, most probably. I'm unaware of Steve ever saying jack-all about CM3 on the public boards. Perhaps he has and I missed the post.

Steve once mentioned he prefers to play RT. I prefer to play RT. RT is there for people who like to play as an 'interactive war movie'. as opposed to a '3-D animated board game'. If you're on the chat board reminiscing about ASL you're probably a '3-D animated board game' type. ;)

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5 hours ago, Sgt Joch said:

WEGO just pauses the RT engine every 60 seconds and adds the replay feature.

Amplifying this signal... cutting out access to the "naked" RT mode and keeping it for debugging/development would probably help streamline the game a bit, but would also mean that BFC definitely walks away from the possibility of distributing gaming sessions over a network. Would that be a great loss?

The decision-making in that  is not unlike that of one having a platoon sticking out a bit too far or across a river, pinned down by mortar fire and basically cut off. Once pixelblood has been spilt it is hard to pull back...

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