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evilman222

Early-War CM?

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This has probably been discussed before, but does anyone else want to see a CM title set in the early days of WWII? Mid and late war are pretty well covered, both by CM and other war games, the campaigns of 1939/1940 are practically ignored. The Winter War and invasion(s) of Poland would both make for great CMs in my opinion, maybe even one set during the Spanish Civil War (I consider it part of the Second World War, but that’s a discussion for another thread...)

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You'd have to play CM1 games to experience the early war.  The plan for CM2 was to work backwards from late war to early war.  However, it's taking a long time, and it may be that BF will produce a CM3 game before CM2 reaches early war years as CM2 was released in 2007 and is 12 years old now .

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10 hours ago, evilman222 said:

This has probably been discussed before...

Oh boy, has it! I am one of the ones who would love to see the early war (1940-'41 at least) covered. But we have to consider certain realities the BFC is obliged. There may be a passionate audience for such games, but so far no demonstrated large one. If BFC cannot sell enough games to balance the books and earn a living, they won't stay in business very long. If each of us who desires to see these games can bring along, say, 500-1,000 committed buyers who will all pledge to buy copies of the games, we just might have a negotiating point. Lacking anything like that, I'm not holding my breath.

Michael

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Barbarossa would be nice. t-34 versus p3h or t26v p3g or what ever would be interesting to me. hoards of Russians against well trained germans. this might also be problematic at this scale so who knows what we could get with that.

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1 hour ago, grungar said:

Barbarossa would be nice. t-34 versus p3h or t26v p3g or what ever would be interesting to me. hoards of Russians against well trained germans. this might also be problematic at this scale so who knows what we could get with that.

Yup, I'd buy that too.  B)

Probably right after CM:FG.  ;)

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Yeah, I Ioved the ability to play from Barbarossa till the end of the war in CMBB.  It's definitely a reason that CM1 lasted as long as it did (eg the tournaments on Band Of Brothers site).  But, it seems that the CM1 clubs are pretty much defunct now. 

If I was a betting guy, I would bet against seeing early WW2 in CM2.  At the current rate of releases that would take another 5 years minimum, and it's hard to imagine playing a 17+ year old CM2 game system when the game tech will have moved on so much by then.

 

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7 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

For me it was more about smiting early war Germans with KVs!  ;)

Agree but would also like to see Germans against Char B-1bis in May 40.

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20 hours ago, ncc1701e said:

Agree but would also like to see Germans against Char B-1bis in May 40.

Well considering what they have done with CMSF2 you have some working parts.  Unfortunately the Char B is the flame version.  Still...….

1532639131_earlywar.thumb.jpg.787cab8a12985207aeee927cca5ad713.jpg

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On 8/14/2019 at 8:43 PM, Erwin said:

it's hard to imagine playing a 17+ year old CM2 game system when the game tech will have moved on so much by then.

Well, if we can play a 12+ year game system when the tech has moved on so much since 2007, why not a 17+ year game system?

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5 hours ago, sburke said:

Well considering what they have done with CMSF2 you have some working parts. 

Yes, the first pieces are there. Who knows? Maybe one day? If BF decides to give it a go, ping me, I have lot of TO&E sources for German / British / French / Dutch / Belgium of May / June 1940.

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56 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Well, if we can play a 12+ year game system when the tech has moved on so much since 2007, why not a 17+ year game system?

It true that chess is hundreds of year old and people still love it.  On the other hand why don't we continue to play CM1 as that's only 20 years old?  If CM1 had been incrementally improved that would enable us to play the entire war from 1941 for the last 20 years, and not have to wait another 5+ years.  

It's only in the last year or two that CM1 has dropped off even at Band Of Brothers.  The reality is that, unlike outliers like chess and GO etc., entertainments need to evolve/improve in order to continue to attract the market.  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Erwin said:
4 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Well, if we can play a 12+ year game system when the tech has moved on so much since 2007, why not a 17+ year game system?

It true that chess is hundreds of year old and people still love it.  On the other hand why don't we continue to play CM1 as that's only 20 years old?  If CM1 had been incrementally improved that would enable us to play the entire war from 1941 for the last 20 years, and not have to wait another 5+ years.  

It's only in the last year or two that CM1 has dropped off even at Band Of Brothers.  The reality is that, unlike outliers like chess and GO etc., entertainments need to evolve/improve in order to continue to attract the market.  

I was playing the devil's advocate there, because I actually agree with you.

I love Combat Mission, but I haven't bought more of their games in a long time. Not as any kind of protest, but just because I don't really feel I need more than two games in the series. CMBN for the bocage, CMFB for the more open battles. Personally, I'm not interested in the modern settings.

If CM3 appeared, I'd definitely get on board again, if it offered the same leap as between CM1 and CM2. Or if a new CM2-based game fixed the many graphical issues and improved fundamental things.

Edited by Bulletpoint

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On 8/14/2019 at 7:51 PM, Michael Emrys said:

Oh boy, has it! I am one of the ones who would love to see the early war (1940-'41 at least) covered. But we have to consider certain realities the BFC is obliged. There may be a passionate audience for such games, but so far no demonstrated large one. If BFC cannot sell enough games to balance the books and earn a living, they won't stay in business very long. If each of us who desires to see these games can bring along, say, 500-1,000 committed buyers who will all pledge to buy copies of the games, we just might have a negotiating point. Lacking anything like that, I'm not holding my breath.

Michael

The fact that we’re even having this discussion suggests that there’s enough of a market for them to at least consider it from a business standpoint. I’d imagine it would pull some new customers to the CM franchise as well, since I haven’t seen much of anything at this scale set during the early War. 

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On 8/15/2019 at 8:02 AM, Warts 'n' all said:

I'd only want to play that if they include Private Pike.

And Lance Corporal Jones, fix bayonets and let em have it right up! they can't stand the old cold steel, they dont like it up em!

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I would love to see an early war title, either Western on Eastern Front, but as for whether the market for a 'France falls' game exists, I'd note a couple of things.

I'm a less expert and less knowledgeable player than many on this forum, and these days I always play against the AI (I don't have the time to dedicate to PBEM). Playing the AI, I only like to play on the attack; and I much prefer to play Allies. My perception is that serious grogs like playing the Germans; while we less serious players prefer shooting at Nazis to commanding them.

I would enjoy early War for historical reasons, but it's the late War where you have the most fun playing Allies on the attack. I don't know what percentage of BFC's customers think and play as I do, but that may have something to do with the smaller market.

 

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On 8/14/2019 at 8:43 PM, Erwin said:

At the current rate of releases that would take another 5 years minimum, and it's hard to imagine playing a 17+ year old CM2 game system when the game tech will have moved on so much by then.

In fact what scared me most recently was the OpenGL strategy. But its end of life is not yet scheduled. And I am less worried about Vulkan now.

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2 hours ago, Freyberg said:

I would enjoy early War for historical reasons, but it's the late War where you have the most fun playing Allies on the attack.

On the contrary, the Allies had good tanks like Somua S-35 or Matilda in May 1940. The problem was the lack of radios in each tank unlike the Germans. Tactically, Allies have a good chance of success. It reminds me of a historical CMBB scenario where one KV-1 tank was blocking a whole German column. Funny.

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I am heavily biased toward allies, being from the USA.  But when I do play as germans it's really a lot of fun to have that great gear.  Nice to be on the safe side of an MG42 for a change. 

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I have completed artwork for the CMRT module in my work folder dating back to mid-2016. Textures for CMFI R2V module predate work on CMSF2. If you're thinking 'long development time' remember most of what you're talking about was already 90%+ completed ages ago. The up-front work is already done. CMFI is something of a special circumstance because the complexity of the games' TO&E spanning '43 to '45 is mind boggling. You don't have that issue in other titles, not even war's end CMRT.

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On 8/16/2019 at 8:47 PM, MikeyD said:

most of what you're talking about was already 90%+ completed ages ago. The up-front work is already done.

True, but I thought it was tradition in this sector of the gaming industry to keep your player base waiting as long as possible to release anything 😂

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