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danfrodo

SF2 or Black Sea for first modern CM game?

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Hey y'all, Playing 2nd SF2 battle, first one was a blast.  Canadians vs insurgents.  Next is "Allah's Fist". american armored force moving toward dug / mobile Syrian armor.  Looks like fun.  I had pictures of my first battle but it seems they are too big, I have to save them in other format. 

Question: do you ever open up in modern tank warfare?  Or stay closed because optics are so good?

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Posted (edited)

My rule of thumb on this comes from what I think is representative in the real world.

From what I´ve seen distant & wide obervation its quiet difficult when on the move in unupgraded vintage T-55, T-62, T-72, BMPs. So I may unbutton them in certain situations. Anything more modern or NATO I never unbutton.

Edited by Aquila-CM

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, danfrodo said:

Looks like fun.  I had pictures of my first battle but it seems they are too big, I have to save them in other format. 

Upload the images to Imgur, then copy/paste the link here. The forum automatically embeds them and there is no file size restriction.

1 hour ago, danfrodo said:

Question: do you ever open up in modern tank warfare?  Or stay closed because optics are so good?

The short answer is; you can easily outspot Syrian armor without ever unbuttoning. 
The more detailed answer is; in certain circumstances it can be beneficial to unbutton your NATO tanks. Movement to contact is generally a good time to have TCs unbuttoned. If nothing else, they can more easily communicate with units not directly in their command, such as friendly infantry or light vehicles nearby. 

You don't put yourself at a significant disadvantage if you never unbutton NATO tanks. 

In real life, TCs tend to stay unbuttoned as much as possible. Not to aid in spotting ground targets though. Mostly to keep situational awareness of what is around the tank, primarily concerning obstacles to avoid while driving and maintaining unit cohesion. TCs also keep a lookout for enemy air units while unbuttoned, such as enemy helicopters. Both of these functions aren't relevant to playing CM though. 

Edited by IICptMillerII

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Posted (edited)

This is a good point. When safe unbutton your vehicles occasionally to allow different elements´ vehicle crews to have a chat with each other or with the infantry so they can share contact information which then is further shared on the different radio nets. I love this CM mechanic, pretty unique.  

Edited by Aquila-CM

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44 minutes ago, danfrodo said:

Abrams just took a frontal hit from 1000m from a 125mm syrian tank gun.  And no damage?  Modern warfare is insane!

The size of the gun is much less relevant in modern warfare than it was in WWII. The most important factor is the ammo being fired. For example, a 125mm gun from a T-72M1firing BM-15 sabot rounds is much less lethal than a 105mm gun from a Stryker MGS firing M900 sabot rounds.

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On 7/19/2019 at 5:50 PM, Erwin said:

I have both v4 and v6.  So, v4 is obsolete and should be deleted... it is not a variant?

Hi @Erwin not sure what you mean by variant. V6 is an improved version. This scenario saw a lot of action and I hit lots of feedback. Hence I kept updating it as the feedback came in. V6 is the most current. I might get around to updating it to CMSF2....

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Was just trying to determine which scenarios with very similar names can be deleted.  So will delete v4 and focus on v6 and the "Halt Hammerzeit!" variant.  Just started and enjoying v6 now.  Thanks George.

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54 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Was just trying to determine which scenarios with very similar names can be deleted.  So will delete v4 and focus on v6 and the "Halt Hammerzeit!" variant.  Just started and enjoying v6 now.  Thanks George.

Ah..! Gotcha :) yup v6 Hammertime is the most ‘recent’. 

Hammerzeit is a complete overhaul with different Syrian OOB, completely new AI plans using triggers and reformed map using CMSF2 terrain features. 

May some point I’ll update Hammertime to CMSF2.  

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Posted (edited)
On 7/15/2019 at 6:11 PM, danfrodo said:

  Black Sea seems to me to be more 'balanced' in the sense that both sides have at least somewhat comparable armor & professional soldiers.  SF2 seems like I would typically be fighting either insurgents or a poorly equipped Syrian army, which doesn't seem that great to me.  Yet folks on the forum seem to absolutely love SF2, so there must be some solid challenge there.

 

On 7/15/2019 at 6:15 PM, IanL said:

Your analysis is spot on. I very much prefer CMBS but I'm playing plenty of CMSF too. There is so much content for SF and as you said there are people having lots of fun creating cool stuff.

 

More or less sums my opinion up as well. There's a wealth of content for SF2 that isn't available in CMBS by simple virtue that SF2 has a longer pedigree, but Black Sea has more compelling force-on-force situations. All the factions have the potential to give you a bloody nose or worse.

SF2 has a decent amount of force on force as well, quite a bit of it every bit as challenging as BS, but there's an overwhelming qualitative superiority for BLUFOR that makes it more of an academic exercise than in Black Sea. 

I see you purchased CMSF2, which is definitely a good choice for singleplayer focus. Enjoy playing. 

Edited by Rinaldi

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SF2 is amazing good fun so far.  two scenarios down, one total & one minor victory -- which must mean my wife has been gone on a business trip :)

That javelin AT missile is a beautiful thing -- for blue forces, that is.

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1 hour ago, danfrodo said:

SF2 is amazing good fun so far.  two scenarios down, one total & one minor victory -- which must mean my wife has been gone on a business trip :)

That javelin AT missile is a beautiful thing -- for blue forces, that is.

Yes it is and when you hit that first scenario that doesn’t have them, you’ll miss em!

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Posted (edited)

That's something that WWII titles don't have - missiles! The least capable ATGM in the game, the poor old AT-3, would be considered a 'wonder weapon' in the WWII timeframe.

Oh, and something people often forget playing CMSF2. You CAN play red side against the blue AI, too. The title isn't just American's versus Syrians, its also Syrians vs Americans. I'm guilty of this, myself. I hardly ever select the Syrian side to play.

Edited by MikeyD

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I just finished my 3rd battle, all small ones w blue vs AI.  this game is really fun.  About to start my first battle as the Dutch.  They have some cool IFVs I had never seen before, but all it takes is one cheap RGP to ruin those lovely, expensive toys.

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hey y'all, thanks again for your advice on getting SF2 -- seems like it should be illegal to have this much fun.  I've done a number of small/medium scenarios now, won all but one.  Just finished USMC beach assault -- crazy good battle! 

So what do you folks think is best SF2 campaign to play first?

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Are you as amazed that you took to Modern like you did, as I was when I first tried SF? Night and day compared to BN or FI or RT. The very best part of stepping out of your warfare comfort zone is the pleasure of interacting with all the new, sexy, bizarre, exotic soldiers and equipment that you haven't experienced before. Half the fun is learning about and using all the alien weapons/vehicles and watching s*** explode. Glad you are having a good time! I always enjoy seeing other players enthusiasm when they experience anything CMish for the first time.

 

Mord.

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On 7/28/2019 at 1:11 PM, danfrodo said:

So what do you folks think is best SF2 campaign to play first?

I'm partial to the US Army campaign titled Task Force Thunder. Its a long campaign with a good assortment of different missions and in my opinion only a few of the missions are duds. The Marine campaign has some great missions in it as well. 

The Dutch campaign is a lot of fun too, though it hasn't been fully updated to engine 4 standards yet, so you may want to wait on that one. 

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9 minutes ago, IICptMillerII said:

I'm partial to the US Army campaign titled Task Force Thunder. Its a long campaign with a good assortment of different missions and in my opinion only a few of the missions are duds. The Marine campaign has some great missions in it as well. 

The Dutch campaign is a lot of fun too, though it hasn't been fully updated to engine 4 standards yet, so you may want to wait on that one. 

and then you have TF Panther...…..  mix of missions, but some of them are all time favorite battles.

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Hey all, thanks for the advice, once again.  I was on vacation in Minnesota (in-law land) and no/little internet, so just now seeing this.  SF2 has been quite a change -- trade firepower & technology for manpower, and must keep casualties very low.  I just guessed and had barely started the Dutch campaign, but will switch to one of the US ones y'all suggest. 

 

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Related to this thread, but not worthy of it's own; I thought it would be really cool if we could combine both Black Sea and Shock Force 2 someday. There's so much that could be done scenario and mod wise if that were possible. Just being able to pull from all those terrain elements and objects alone would be amazing, not to mention all the equipment...

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There's a ten year difference between Black Sea and Shock Force. If they're going to make a new title I'd prefer them going back 20, 30, 40, 50 years! Aren't you curious to find out who'd win in a duel between an M47 MBT and a T54? :P

320px-T-54_001.jpg

M47.jpg

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1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

Aren't you curious to find out who'd win in a duel between an M47 MBT and a T54?

Yes.  ;)

I'd buy this in an instant.....The more open the format the better.  B)

PS - My money's on the T-54.  :P

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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