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I was just thinking...after the soon to be released CMRT module...

Would it make sence for BFC to skip straight to 1941 and operation Barbarosssa ?

I know the current plan is to take advantage of the already finnished games and modules to use the equipment and OOBs and such from those games to speed up the development of the next few eastern front games...gooing in reverse order from1944 to 1943 to 1942 etc...

I can't help it but this feels a bit 'wrong'  😉...i would much rather play through the war in the right order. 41 to 42 to 43 etc...

Take Stalingrad for example...First we get to play the Russian counterattack and associated battles in the Winter of 43...then after we have done that for a year or to...

only then do we get to play the beginning part of the Stalingrad battle...including the full Case Blue in one of the 1942 games...

It would be better to start with Case Blue and then follow that up with 1943 imo...

The question is...

Should BFC take the plunge now...and spend the time developing entirely new units and formations to allow for a 1941 Barnarossa game and the progress through the years in the right direction ?

imo YES ! 😁

Besides being allowed to play the war in the direction as far as the years go...I can see additional benefits with such a change in strategy...

If they do develop the 1941 units and formations for Barbarossa they will have...

A decent foundation to begin working on  CM2 CMAK and probably also the early war Western front...

Many units needed for those games will already have been developed for Barbarossa 👍

Switching the direction like this will give BFC a good opertunity to begine working on these two entirely new game famelies...

north africa and early western front.

Perfect, i say ! 😁

If they stick with the current reversed direction with the years...they pretty much have nothing left to do as far as WW2 basegames go...

besides completing the eastern front...in the reverse order 🙃

The other option is better imho...😎

 

 

 

 

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Well, I certainly wish this would come true. But I seriously doubt it.

It is my understanding that BFC have made a plan for the release of all WWII modules long ago - and if I know them right, they are going to stick to it.

I hope I'm wrong, though.

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1 hour ago, RepsolCBR said:

If they do develop the 1941 units and formations for Barbarossa they will have...

A decent foundation to begin working on  CM2 CMAK and probably also the early war Western front...

only problems with that theory is BF has explicitly mentioned not doing early war or North Africa... The actual financial picture for that is not as rosy as it's advocates seem to think.  Still one can dream.  BF plans are mostly articulated around financial return.  Late war NW Europe is apparently the cash cow.  That then determines what you do next.....

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There is a fix to these problems but I doubt that BFC would go along with it. Open up the possibility of letting the mod guru's design those vehicles, tanks, and weapons that could be used for earlier periods of the war or theaters of the war that BFC does not feel would be profitable for them to do. To me, such an option would literally make their profit margins for the basic games go sky high. Each new model designed would follow the same guidelines as far as how a certain unit performs in battle; armor thickness, ROFs, caliber of guns, speed and other specs relative to that particular unit so that the new unit is compatible with the CM Game Engine. Design the model and then simple fill in the data for each new model. Same could be used to add more visual eye candy for terrain. Why do you think the guys at Bohemia Interactive Studios are getting absolutely rich off the ArmA series? Because it is so easily modded. I have over 2.2 TB of mods for ArmA III alone and I can fight almost any period of combat I wish to fight. I say make Combat Mission an Open Source game.

Edited by WhiteWolf65

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What I fear most for the great group of designers at BFC is that they are only going to be able to go so far with any new World War II games or add-on modules. Sure, new units that had been left out of the original games is good, but there aren't many more weapon systems that can be added if they don't develop new titles for the earlier periods of the war. I myself would love to see a game dealing with the German airborne invasion of Crete or the Russian cavalry charges that happened during the war, even in the later stages of the war. As far as modern titles, the same holds true. All of the major nations in the world are constantly adding new weapon systems but for BFC to say that ending the Black Sea or Shock Force games at a particular date is going to kill the sales for those games as well. I just don't want to see BFC go out of business. You are just too damn good to let that happen. Please don't let it happen.

A very dedicated Combat Mission player and concerned customer.

**Chris**

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3 hours ago, sburke said:

only problems with that theory is BF has explicitly mentioned not doing early war or North Africa... The actual financial picture for that is not as rosy as it's advocates seem to think.  Still one can dream.  BF plans are mostly articulated around financial return.  Late war NW Europe is apparently the cash cow.  That then determines what you do next.....

It is a strange method indeed. Sort of like building a house with the roof first, then the walls, and finally the foundation. And there is only so much less left to do with Late war NW Europe. We are almost to the point of the invasion of Germany itself (actually it is already there with Final Blitzkrieg). About the only new NW Europe title I could foresee would be something like Battle of Aachen or the Siege of Cologne. After that, the war was pretty much a boring job of mopping up what remained of the German forces and that would be boring as hell for me, as a gamer.

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If you want to see the competition that BFC is up against, just check out the Steel Division games by Paradox Interactive. That is what concerns me about future plans for BFC. Again, just a dedicated player of CM and customer of BFC.

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Some interesting ideas there WW65.  Obviously, Battlefront have carved a slither of the military games market for themselves and the financial return reflects this.  To have even 5% of ARMA's income would be a dream for them I presume.  How to expand sales seems to be a perennial issue for BF - once again lack of funds or lack of vision, or both.   Or BF is happy with the staus quo for a range of reasons.

A very small team means glacial progress (if BF history is anything to go by).  So the idea of opening up aspects to the community, at first blush, would seem to be a good idea.  Not sure if the BF demographic is into that, but worth consideration.   

BF have alluded to CMx-next, maybe in that iteration community input will be considered.  

IMHO, BF implementation of the WEGO system is  excellent and the games provide many hours of entertainment and variation.   I like the look of modern RTS games but, for my taste, the play-ability is not there.   

Appreciate we have gone a bit off course from the OP.    But I think the point we are trying to make is that BF have a very narrow financial/management approach and variation, such as a Barbarossa series, is out of the question currently.    Those into sim car racing may remember rFactor 2 history.  It was almost moribund before taken over by new management and a more aggressive production/development cycle was implemented.       

Edited by aus3620

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1 hour ago, WhiteWolf65 said:

If you want to see the competition that BFC is up against, just check out the Steel Division games by Paradox Interactive. That is what concerns me about future plans for BFC. Again, just a dedicated player of CM and customer of BFC.

There seems to be a genre of RTS games like that.  Personally I don't consider them real alternatives or competition to CM.  Graphically they have lots of glam, but playwise they don't compare.  Twitch games have an audience for sure, just not necessarily the same audience.

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26 minutes ago, sburke said:

There seems to be a genre of RTS games like that.  Personally I don't consider them real alternatives or competition to CM.  Graphically they have lots of glam, but playwise they don't compare.  Twitch games have an audience for sure, just not necessarily the same audience.

i agree with this.

from having watched a few youtube videos...they look like a pure click-fest to me...most players don't even seem to zoom in much at all but rather plays it fully zoomed out...making the nice graphics a fairly mout point.

to be honest. it looks plain boring ! that might not be the case though...but that is what it looks like to me with my limited knowledge of the game. i might try a demo at some point but i hardly condidder it a competitor to CM...at all. Nice graphics...sure. But then what ? the actuall terrain seems to have fairly limited impact for example...

 

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1 hour ago, RepsolCBR said:

i agree with this.

from having watched a few youtube videos...they look like a pure click-fest to me...most players don't even seem to zoom in much at all but rather plays it fully zoomed out...making the nice graphics a fairly mout point.

to be honest. it looks plain boring ! that might not be the case though...but that is what it looks like to me with my limited knowledge of the game. i might try a demo at some point but i hardly condidder it a competitor to CM...at all. Nice graphics...sure. But then what ? the actuall terrain seems to have fairly limited impact for example...

Don't get me wrong, the game may be a lot of fun and there are definitely folks who will like it and probably consider it the best WW 2 game they have ever played.  However I think you are correct, it is the nature of RTS that you loose a lot just trying to keep up with the action.  Also it isn't clear to me how much of an editor it has.  Unit formations for example are a "deck"  It kind of reminds me of Close Combat Campaigns.  Also the statement "25 maps" infers there is no map editor.  As has been said on this forum by others there is a whole other game in CM with the editor.  Case in point - I watched and read Generation Kill and thought that could be an interesting campaign.  Marine Recon mounted in Humvees advancing on the backroads through Iraq with the express intent of confusing the enemy and well... running blindly into them.  So I plodded through various maps edited a few and came up with a core unit.  I took a US Marine Bn and added vehicles to the platoons, dismounted the crews and spread the Marines through the vehicles.....and presto- Generation Kill. (No Sgt you can't save the scenario as such, you have to do the dismount etc in the first turn... still)  I can even rename the team leaders to reflect the actual individuals.  I don't believe there is another tactical combat game out there even close to this versatility AND has wego.

G Kill 001.jpg

G Kill 002.jpg

Edited by sburke

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Barbarossa would be very very nice (for a couple of years already), but I don´t expect it to happen anytime soon.

Steel Divison a competitor for CMX2? :lol:;) I like PDX games though, but more on the strategic scale.

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4 hours ago, WhiteWolf65 said:

If you want to see the competition that BFC is up against, just check out the Steel Division games by Paradox Interactive. That is what concerns me about future plans for BFC. Again, just a dedicated player of CM and customer of BFC.

I've seen plenty of yt videos of that game. But sadly, my puritan upbringing will not allow me to tell you what I really think of it. 

Edited by Warts 'n' all

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I don't know about Barbarossa but it would be cool if they skipped 1943 and went straight to 1942 instead; where the panzers were still grey and it was right at the height of the war with huge battles like Kharkov leading into the push to Stalingrad. They could make a whole game about Stalingrad and it would be cool. I would imagine that "Combat Mission: Stalingrad" would sell a lot more copies than Barbarossa as well.

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36 minutes ago, Bozowans said:

They could make a whole game about Stalingrad and it would be cool.

that is an option offcourse...and probably what they will do.

But with regards to the 'reverse timings'...the same holds true with things like Moscow...

Playing in reverse orders we will probably first get to play operation typhoon and - the first winter battles - for quite some time and only after that be able to play the initial invation (Barbarossa).

I would much rather have it the other way around 😎

 

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Good morning gentlemen,

It was a good thing I wore my flak jacket when I posted this topic. What I want everyone to understand is that there are so many possibilities for the current CM engine and I in no way was putting down the game or the plans that the development team have for future products, even if it seemed I was. Combat Mission is, and always will be my go to tactical level game dealing with World War II and modern era warfare. I've worked on, beta-tested and played many others (not going to list them) and they do not compare to even to the 20 year-old versions of CM. I will continue to post suggestions as it pertains to all the games but not as "Click Bait". If the administrators give me a warning to stop, then I will. I would hate to be banned from this forum. 

Saying that, I would personally like to see new CM titles dealing with other periods of World War II whether they might be considered a popular title or not. There are those of us that would buy them and I would personally be an advocate for them on any of the social media sites that I am currently a member of or might be in the future.

I hope all of you have a great week.

**Chris**

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A flak jacket is always a nice thing to have...You never know when it might come in handy 😁

As far as i'm concerned atleast...Please post away !

The forum currently is in a bit of a waiting mode it seems...Not much things being discussed/posted lately...

new topics and ideas are always welcome imo...

Mind you i'm no administrator though...😉

 

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16 hours ago, RepsolCBR said:

Switching the direction like this will give BFC a good opertunity to begine working on these two entirely new game famelies...

north africa and early western front.

As will continuing on their current path :) They just get to the place where they can make the new game families later - that is all.

 

12 hours ago, WhiteWolf65 said:

There is a fix to these problems but I doubt that BFC would go along with it. Open up the possibility of letting the mod guru's design those vehicles, tanks, and weapons that could be used for earlier periods of the war or theaters of the war that BFC does not feel would be profitable for them to do. To me, such an option would literally make their profit margins for the basic games go sky high.

LOL my added bold. Not only would that mean people could create all kinds of unrealistic equipment the only thing I can see it doing to profit is reducing it. I think BFC will have to see a detailed business plan for how sales will go up with customers having to do more work.

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27 minutes ago, IanL said:

As will continuing on their current path :) They just get to the place where they can make the new game families later - that is all.

 

I don't like LATER ! it's an uggly word...it should be removed...😁

 

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47 minutes ago, IanL said:

As will continuing on their current path :) They just get to the place where they can make the new game families later - that is all.

 

LOL my added bold. Not only would that mean people could create all kinds of unrealistic equipment the only thing I can see it doing to profit is reducing it. I think BFC will have to see a detailed business plan for how sales will go up with customers having to do more work.

And pray-tell where do you find the funny side of that idea? I am not being argumentative with you and you very well might be right but BFC could hold the design of a yet-to-be designed new unit made by a modder to historical limitations. No, I don't want to see mods like any of the German Entwicklung series or the outlandish Landkreuzer P:1000 (Ratte) or P:1500 Monster.

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14 minutes ago, WhiteWolf65 said:

And pray-tell where do you find the funny side of that idea?

I find it humours when people assert that idea X or Y will make them bundles of more money with nothing at all to support such a position.

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1 hour ago, RepsolCBR said:

I don't like LATER ! it's an uggly word...it should be removed...😁

 

Indeed. How do you like "unsoon" or "not close in the future"?

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4 minutes ago, IanL said:

I find it humours when people assert that idea X or Y will make them bundles of more money with nothing at all to support such a position.

It is the customer that will buy X or Y because of the feedback you see here and on other forums dealing with Combat Mission. Okay, I'll post this question and let's see how many members of this forum would like to see these possible new CM games. 1) Tunisia after the United States got involved, 2) The lengthy battles of Tobruk, 3) Early and Late Stalingrad, 4) Northern and Southern flanks of Kursk and so on. The one theater of the war that I am sure would not be very popular, would be the war in the Southern Pacific with the possible exception after the Allies started island hopping (those were some extremely intense and bloody battles).

**Chris**

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