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9 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

BTW, thanks for the explanation.

You're welcome.

10 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

Hind has flown off after just 2 runs

Hmm, Krokodil sometimes uses up all of its ammo and sometimes strafes once already destroyed vehicle, calls it a job well done and leaves! Very hard to get consistent behavior.

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Thanks guys! I really appreciate the support. 🙂

I've learned a lot since I laid the first tile down on Tal Malah. All of my maps are going to reflect this in the campaign, and stand alone once the campaign is done. Here's an in-progress shot from the west side of Kafr Nabudah in the meantime:

6YPju4G.png

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Breaking the buildings up with a few walls can add to the feeling of immersion IMHO, as can using dirt tiles at the entrances & exits to buildings, or in alleyways & yards, to show the heavy foot traffic.

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hehe...thanks bro, but those are all things I'm already doing, foot paths and dirt lot tiles are also very useful in that regard; and by the time you clear this side of Kafr Nabudah...you're going to be dreading walls. The city is also heavily damaged. The use paths and battle damage will come once all the major terrain elements are laid down. Right now, laying down connected buildings across multiple slopes is what's being done. It's a hilly town.

Edited by Liveload

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Screens looking good!

And for sure interested in the campaign! :)

Last night I finished the Al Hamamiyat scenario with an enemy surrender.
AAR:
After I scouted towards the hill, a tough battle for the outskirts ensued. After preparatory strikes I moved up the Tiger infantry while taking positions on the hill. With all guns in support and the plenty of mortar/arty rounds I was able to smash the enemy defenses, although  I didn't have much time left. My tanks were quite low on HE rounds too.
My losses were minimal, half a dozen casualties and 1 bmp lost. Had some luck though, with the ATGM and arty. Probably another 10+ yellow base on my infantry. Took precautions after the preparatory enemy shelling at turn 1, and was expecting ATGMs.  Firefights were intense, AI defense tight. Fell back a couple of times due to enemy mortars. Noticed most troops of veteran and above quality. Enemy defenses seemed stubborn and fanatic, nobody ran or surrendered even under extreme fires.
The AI did mount an infantry offensive, but it just walked into my direct & indirect HE, topped of with MG fires. That's were I discovered an US m240 MG team and some Dutch infantry team. The AI offense was blunted and from there I moved slowly forwards. With 40 minutes left I just barely held the outskirts, so I worried a bit for time but after effective resistance was broken I could push easily towards the town objective upon which the AI surrendered @25min left. 
One thing I noticed after the battle is the TOW team and a AT-3 sagger were not in position to strike. It might be because I shelled the AT-4C team that uncovered itself, but I'm quite sure neither the TOW or AT-3 was able to get any shots off during the scenario. 
Another thing I noticed was the AI infantry attack towards the West Side; they sort of crawled towards me in the open, although that too might be because of shelling. I don't know the intention, but it seemed to me that had they chosen position in/around the outskirts, the strike force would been much more of a challenge. 
Although I still had 25 min left, I would probably be pretty short on time to methodically swipe the town towards east side. I think a little bit of extra time wouldn't hurt, especially if you up the challenge. On the other hand I probably could have been quicker, so it's not really short I think. Munition wise I didn't really have a problem (I used supply trucks for PKM rounds bug and some RPG rounds), only my tanks had low HE. I still had plenty of mortar/arty rounds left and I fired of a lot of rounds. the 5min call time on the 120mm mortars (3min with TRP) is great for supporting the infantry. Preparatory strikes with the 122mm and the hind. 

Ok, I just played a football match followed with 3rd half (beers), sorry if my AAR is a bit chaotic. lol. I will add some screens.
Thanks for the nice scenario!

829181460_cmshockforce2.exeScreenshot2019_09.08-01_31_51_36.thumb.png.1938832bce13a6603d75a4bf2ee16546.png

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431112122_cmshockforce2.exeScreenshot2019_09.08-03_51_38_57.thumb.png.4c416967ec444d02deecbd1ed5356b9e.png

Edited by Lethaface

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@Lethaface Thank you for your AAR! It's nice to see I'm not the only taking a cold one after physical exercise, for therapeutic purposes, of course!😄

As far as scenario is concerned, a little context is needed. The AI is of above average quality for two reasons. In the actual battle, jihadi forces did actually fight to the death and were a challenge. Second reason being AI of regular or below quality has a tendency of breaking under fire, even if they are not directly targeted. I have observed situations where units are on the first floor, the enemy targets the third, units on the first floor get suppressed, panic and leave cover. Better quality units get less suppressed and don't get morale penalty.

50 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

My tanks were quite low on HE rounds too

Working as intended.

50 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

One thing I noticed after the battle is the TOW team and a AT-3 sagger were not in position to strike.

Something @Liveload and I need to take a look at.

52 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

Another thing I noticed was the AI infantry attack towards the West Side; they sort of crawled towards me in the open

Hmm, that is probably the reinforcement wave. Closer look needed.

We'll see about increasing the time limit.

From your account, I take it Abu Aurelius and his T 90 survived! 😄

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29 minutes ago, Aurelius said:

@Lethaface Thank you for your AAR! It's nice to see I'm not the only taking a cold one after physical exercise, for therapeutic purposes, of course!😄

As far as scenario is concerned, a little context is needed. The AI is of above average quality for two reasons. In the actual battle, jihadi forces did actually fight to the death and were a challenge. Second reason being AI of regular or below quality has a tendency of breaking under fire, even if they are not directly targeted. I have observed situations where units are on the first floor, the enemy targets the third, units on the first floor get suppressed, panic and leave cover. Better quality units get less suppressed and don't get morale penalty.

My pleasure, proost! 🍻

With regards to the troop experience: I actually enjoyed the fierce battle due to the quality troops. My troops were mostly around crack level, about which I don't know if that's fully realistic, I do enjoy their resilience. Decent AI troops are required to put up a fight against the players forces.

BTW; Yes I know Syrian troops have a plenty experience over the last years, but I don't know about training and how good they are at retaining experienced soldiers. How do they compare to Spetznatz, for example? 😉

Anyway I think the scenario was quite well balanced and the quality troops provided some intense fighting, so I don't complain! Was just interested in the rationale behind it.

I will add some screenshots, including Abu Aurelius, to show the points talked about (atgm pos & inf attack). 

169146810_cmshockforce2.exeScreenshot2019_09.08-20_31_45_14.thumb.png.27c5c5fff077bd9dca221246642ae485.png

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1105910635_cmshockforce2.exeScreenshot2019_09.08-20_22.16_09.thumb.png.12f8bece2bd85d7b53552444ab2a4acb.png

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29 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

BTW; Yes I know Syrian troops have a plenty experience over the last years, but I don't know about training and how good they are at retaining experienced soldiers.

Experience is relative. We believe that Tiger Forces, both as a structure, a system and on an individual level, have grown quite adept at destroying jihadi's over the course of time.  Thier image is tainted by various militias fighting along them. Furthermore, they are at a higher rating to simulate the extra step Syrians would take to defend their homeland, something @Liveload has already expressed in another forum topic.

33 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

How do they compare to Spetznatz, for example?

It would be like comparing a hammer (Tiger Forces) and a scalpel (various specialist units across services and branches, all under a single convenient moniker "Specnaz").

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Perfect! Very nice AAR. Thank you very much for that. Al Hamamiyat has been internally updated to help with the long time on the air support, and I've made notes regarding the AI performance. Usually for me the TOW team would be inconsistent, but often enough would cause havoc when he did decide to participate so I left him alone for the time being. The results you achieved were remarkably close to the end result of the actual battle. Well done, sir!

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Thanks!

I just did a quick playthrough of the Tal Malah battle, as a sunday casual. Didn't give too many orders, just spread out the troops and hide them with short cover arcs. When the enemy came close (<200m), unhide and fire at will.
Nice battle! A lot of mayhem. My forces held out, although I've taken quite some casualties. Mainly from enemy tank direct fires. The T-90 mopped them up though. Could have probably reduced casualties by moving my infantry out of LOS from the tanks. But I was having fun just ordering the T-90 and a couple BMPs around and watch the havoc unfold.

Enemy surrender at 27min left. 
The AI attack was quite nice, if their artillery smoke could be more towards the front it could have been perfect.

612637324_cmshockforce2.exeScreenshot2019_09.08-22_24_16_65.thumb.png.9c5f369fe8eada4d87734b33dfc663fd.png

1126220807_cmshockforce2.exeScreenshot2019_09.08-22_24_23_10.thumb.png.9d11b67badce46a366fbd34cb56f02cc.png

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Oh man, what a battle! Tal Malah occurred during a time when the takfiri forces still had a lot of heavy equipment, unlike Al Hamamiyat. Their armored columns approached the frontlines with artillery support, behind VBIED attacks...

Thanks to everyone's invaluable feedback, this campaign is shaping up to be a real beast. We plan on also releasing the updated scenarios as stand alone once the campaign is baked, as some of the maps have gone through a dramatic facelift.

Respectfully,

LL

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14 minutes ago, Liveload said:

Oh man, what a battle! Tal Malah occurred during a time when the takfiri forces still had a lot of heavy equipment, unlike Al Hamamiyat. Their armored columns approached the frontlines with artillery support, behind VBIED attacks...

35 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

The AI attack was quite nice, if their artillery smoke could be more towards the front it could have been perfect.

If I may suggest a small improvement, put those ZU-23-2 technicals of AI group 8 in another group than the T-55. And, use them to area fire your objectives. Same for AI group 2. Also this is important to move them so that their tubes are always toward the enemy. So, you must use the Retreat order so that the ZU-23-2 technicals are actually reversing toward the enemy. This is why this is not compatible to have a T-55 in the same AI group. 🙂

I am using this technique in the first scenario I am playtesting and I try to have a really cool AI behaviour in attack and defense.

A little example. Here is the setup of your technical. The green dot is the facing order so that the ZU-23-2 tubes are looking at the enemy. They already have an area fire order against the two buildings of my demo scenario:

Qdy53.png

The order 2 orders them after one minute to reverse towards the enemy and to continue the area fire...

Ejg0k.png

The order 3 orders them, after 4 minutes, to again reverse toward the enemy while continuing the area fire on them:

bRA8p.png

Try it and let me know what you think. This really strengthens any AI attack (against me at least 🤣). I have attached the 002 try.btt test scenario. Play as Blue against Red AI in Scenario Author Mode to see everything.

Cheers

002 try.btt

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Great info! Thanks for that. When I made that scenario, I tried to get those zushkas to be more effective. This is just what I was looking for. I'm trying it out now. FWIW, Tal Malah was my very first published scenario, so I have been revisiting it as time allows. It will tie in with Qalaat Al Madiq in the campaign.

Edit: I just checked the AI plan on that group. It is set to area fire into the town, just not the movement part. That will help them a lot I think. Thanks

Edited by Liveload

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21 hours ago, Liveload said:

Great info! Thanks for that.

My pleasure, happy to help 🙂

21 hours ago, Liveload said:

Edit: I just checked the AI plan on that group. It is set to area fire into the town, just not the movement part. That will help them a lot I think. Thanks

Yes sorry you are right for AI group 8. I have checked too quickly. I think you should do the same for AI group 2 then. And for both AI groups move them with Retreat orders.

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Great shot! Love the choice of font.

FYI, Tal Malah AI is getting a serious makeover for the re-release. Those head choppers wont be quite so moderate the next time around 😁

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15 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I enjoyed the initial version, it was properly hectic!  B)

Happy to help out with testing of updated versions if you need another hand.....I'm kind of fond of MOUT battles.  ;)

 

Excellent! Glad you enjoyed it. I still have fun playing these scenarios, even when it's just a test in editor mode, the digital toy soldiers amuse me greatly with their antics. I will have things ready soon to test, in the meantime since you enjoy the more urban side of things you might like Al Hamamiyat and Qasabiyeh. There's an updated Qasabiyeh in the pipeline.

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