Line of Sight Question

[CanuckGamer]

Currently playing a scenario taking place in hedgerow country.  I have had a number of puzzling line of sight situations.  For example, when I click on a friendly unit, an enemy unit becomes visible but I can't target it.  I would have thought that if I could see an enemy unit, I should be able to fire at it.

A couple of turns ago I placed a machine gun in a spot and checked it's line of sight by choosing Target.  Now when I choose the machine gun and choose Target there is no longer a line of sight along the exact line I previously chose.

[General Liederkranz]

Was the MG already in that spot, and was it deployed? If not one reason could be that when you use the LOS tool to check LOS from a position before you move there, it uses the unit's current stance (prone, kneeling, or standing for infantry). But if the unit's actual stance when it arrives is different, that'll change LOS. This can easily happen with MG teams because they often lie down when they set up the MG.

[CanuckGamer]

Yes I had it deployed and it had been at that spot for some time.  The way I check LOS is click on combat and then Target moving it around to see where I can fire.  What is the LOS tool that you referred to.  Also I normally choose Hide for my infantry.  Would infantry in Hide mode have a decreased spotting ability?   The enemy were shooting at my MG so I chose the Slow command and moved away from the hedgerow since I was unable to shoot back.

[General Liederkranz]

34 minutes ago, CanuckGamer said:

The way I check LOS is click on combat and then Target moving it around to see where I can fire.  What is the LOS tool that you referred to.

Yeah, I think we're talking about the same thing. What I meant by "LOS tool" is using the Target line from a waypoint rather than from the unit's current location.

37 minutes ago, CanuckGamer said:

Would infantry in Hide mode have a decreased spotting ability?

Definitely, I think in two ways. First, Hide makes them stay prone. So they can't see over things they might be able to see over if they were kneeling or standing. Second, soldiers who are Hiding I believe can't spot at all, or at least get a penalty when they do. That said, some men in a Hiding unit will still occasionally rise up and change over to "Spotting").

As I think about it, I think something else might be causing this problem. Is this a US MG team? There's a particular oddity with MG teams since the line of SIGHT is traced from the stance of the soldiers, but line of FIRE is traced from the position of the MG itself. This can cause problems, especially with US .30 cal air cooled MGs, because when the gun is deployed it's usually down at ground level but the leader of the team might be kneeling. So if the team is behind a hedgerow, the the game might calculate spotting from the leader's eye level, and it might use him to trace the line of sight when you use the Target tool. BUT the MG won't be able to fire because when the game tries to trace line of fire, it finds the barrel is down at ground level, with the hedgerow berm in the way. I've seen this happen and I believe there are more details in other threads on the forum. 

[CanuckGamer]

Thanks for your replies.  I am the Germans and the MG is a MG42.  I am waiting to see how effective it is as I read something in the Engine 4.0 patch about increased effectiveness for the MG42 if I can acquire a LOS.  Hedgerows are always a puzzle when it comes to LOS as well.

So the advantage of placing a unit in Hide mode is that it should be more difficult for the enemy to spot it and harder for the enemy to hit the units with their fire.  On the flip side, it will be more difficult for your unit to spot the enemy and fire on them too.

The scenario I am playing is Carentan, with a friend by PBEM.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

23 minutes ago, CanuckGamer said:

So the advantage of placing a unit in Hide mode is that it should be more difficult for the enemy to spot it and harder for the enemy to hit the units with their fire.  On the flip side, it will be more difficult for your unit to spot the enemy and fire on them too.

Yes & No.

Yes to the first bit, but the unit may not fire at all unless the enemy pretty much trip over it, or the unit has been given a 'Target Arc' in combination with the hide command.

You wanna see how effective a MG-42 is.....Set it up near a hedge-line that the enemy has to cross, looking straight along the line of the hedge, on your side.....Anything short of a light tank that comes through that hedge is chop-suey! 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Warts 'n' all]

One thing you might like to try with the MG42 is to use it "Semi-Deployed". To achieve this from a hedgerow I set a waypoint just before the MG Team reach the hedge, then have them "Slow" up to it, therefore the gunner will be lying down on the bank with his gun pointing towards the enemy, and not sat below it with the gun deployed.

[BornGinger]

I hijack this thread for a LOS question of my own to the game Final Blitzkrieg. In the top picture a Sherman tank is selected and one can see the highlighted units which see the tank. The other six pictures show what the individual units see when they are selected. All of them except for the PAK 40 AT-gun actually spot the tank when they are selected. Does anyone know why the AT-gun is highlighted as if it is able to spot the tank but doesn't spot the tank when selected?

[Warts 'n' all]

1 hour ago, BornGinger said:

I hijack this thread .....

..... take me to Naseby.