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On 6/8/2019 at 9:38 PM, Mord said:

I don't like losing but I enjoy the stories that can come from a good defeat just as much as from a killer win. When I play as a weaker side, like Syrian Combatants or Italians, I adjust my goals to causing as much hurt as I can. If I knock out a few good tanks and rack up a couple dozen bodies, I consider it a "win" even when I get my ass handed to me.

Interesting to see that I’m not the only one who thinks this way. Especially when playing against  a stronger player, or one who has the stronger side, as we sometimes see in CMSF2 or CMBS, I decided some time ago to play more to deny the enemy an outright win than to try to win myself. And in some truly tough battles, eking out a draw can feel like a huge victory from my standpoint. If I exceed my expectations, so much the better, but not winning is not an automatic disappointment. 

Edited by Bud Backer

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As I said before, IMHO, such battles should be scored asymmetrically, so that the Red player can win by doing just that. 

Expecting Uncon forces to meet the same sort of 'Victory Conditions' as regular forces is ridiculous frankly, that's not how they operate at all.

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Which is more than possible with careful scenario design, of course.

It's hard though - you can throw down a WW2 German and US infantry company with an objective in the centre and have a reasonably balanced, and even an interesting battle. You really can't do that with Red vs Blue in CMSF, and you especially can't do that with Uncons.

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6 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

As I said before, IMHO, such battles should be scored asymmetrically, so that the Red player can win by doing just that. 

Expecting Uncon forces to meet the same sort of 'Victory Conditions' as regular forces is ridiculous frankly, that's not how they operate at all.

You have that right.

And No it is not hard to create a scoring system that works.

All it takes is playing the scenario enough times by different folks to take a logical guess as to what a average outcome would be in the game. 

A draw result is set to that point and then everything else is from that.

There will never be a perfect answer to the situation, but there is plenty of scenarios scored not by anything close to this method.

 

played some terrible battles and still get rewarded way to easy.

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1 hour ago, slysniper said:

All it takes is playing the scenario enough times by different folks to take a logical guess as to what a average outcome would be in the game. 

A draw result is set to that point and then everything else is from that.

It becomes more tricky when scoring against the AI.....Even with all the new improvements and tools, it's painfully thick compared to a human opponent of any kind.  :rolleyes:

TBH I suspect my Lurchers could give it a decent run for it's money if they could use the keyboard & mouse with their paws!  :P

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Scoring vs the AI should only be done in battles vs the AI only in my opinion. So that would be campaigns.

In Scenarios, I have felt that there should be two versions for each. One for AI play and one for h2h

But likely will never see that day

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On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 8:47 PM, The Steppenwulf said:

All said and done, for me CM is not a game where winning or losing is particularly important. I think most of the community approach it that way too? It's a shame that there are some players (a minority) who treat it like a high stakes poker game!  

That's one reason I almost always give my opponent the choice on what and how we play. Aside from something like, 'no hedgrows' or 'some nasty weather if you don't mind'.

I care about the quality of the game, far more than the outcome.

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On 6/10/2019 at 3:44 PM, Bud Backer said:

Interesting to see that I’m not the only one who thinks this way. Especially when playing against  a stronger player, or one who has the stronger side, as we sometimes see in CMSF2 or CMBS, I decided some time ago to play more to deny the enemy an outright win than to try to win myself. And in some truly tough battles, eking out a draw can feel like a huge victory from my standpoint. If I exceed my expectations, so much the better, but not winning is not an automatic disappointment. 

I'll remind you of this when we finish our current CMSF2 battle ... 😜

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