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Heaven & Earth: Project discussion thread


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4 minutes ago, puje said:

I would be tempted! But probably a bit shorter this time 🙂

BTW have you considered LRRP units? Or would that be outside CM's limitations? 

I've thought about creating a "generic voice mod" which would allow me to give the Syrian Airborne America faces & enable US vs Combatants.

Assuming I get that working, wouldn't LRRP units just be typical American forces with M16's, LAWS (I plan to model swap the RPG-16's with LAWs) & such like but with better soft factors (experience, motivation etc)?

 

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12 minutes ago, 37mm said:

I've thought about creating a "generic voice mod" which would allow me to give the Syrian Airborne America faces & enable US vs Combatants.

Assuming I get that working, wouldn't LRRP units just be typical American forces with M16's, LAWS (I plan to model swap the RPG-16's with LAWs) & such like but with better soft factors (experience, motivation etc)?

 

Well yeah, and tiger stripe camos ❤️ 😁

I'm not sure how much modding you are actually able to in this game. I've ever only made a re-skinned US uniform. Would it be possible to, in one desired, to eg. remove the helmet and have the soldiers with no headgear? 

Edited by puje
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17 minutes ago, LongLeftFlank said:

But I am once again on cold turkey CM hiatus for work reasons; relocating to a new country.

Best wishes for a smooth migration.  ;)

17 minutes ago, LongLeftFlank said:

Keep pushing the boundaries!

Always!  :D

Have you seen what we've been doing to your map recently? 

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36 minutes ago, puje said:

Well yeah, and tiger stripe camos ❤️ 😁

I'm not sure how much modding you are actually able to in this game. I've ever only made a re-skinned US uniform. Would it be possible to, in one desired, to eg. remove the helmet and have the soldiers with no headgear? 

I can't see why not... alpha channel the helmets & I think it would leave the heads underneath exposed (alternatively we could use some tanker gear/berets).

Face bitmaps have a full head of hair on them.

So we'd have options for ARVN (get to use Vietnemese voices... I found quite a lot of voice files), standard US Infantry (forced to use a "generic voice mod") & the LRRP (also "generic voices").

I think I could even make a basic NVA mod (using Pith helmets from CMFI) for Syrian reserve infantry... but, unfortunately, they could only ever fight the ARVN.

We'd need a uniform modder of course... but that's pretty obvious already as I had to use Taliban as VC!

 

Edited by 37mm
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So as far as I understand it, the difference types of troops are drawn from different slots in the game data? So while Syrian reserves and regulars might look alike in the game, their stats and looks come from different data? Am I getting this right? 

I assume you are basing US troops on Syrian Airborne because their skills and equipment would the closest equal to Americans in the Nam era? 

Edited by puje
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Some progress on the first experimental map (shown without any mods):

xMfR6SU.jpg

ZzTy2X4.jpg

It's only a small thing, 640m x 640m, mostly to test out how 'jungly' various terrain mods look, results on that front are mixed but reasonably promising overall.  B)

PS - @37mm  Any chance of replacing the splash screen & associated music with a bit of this:

 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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@37mm did you do much with the trees on the Barras map and flattered obviously that you used my work as a testbed for this project - I had a hissy fit trying to randomise them when making it.

At some point when I can make time for CM, I might crank out some maps of Phuoc Tuy Province for this project now that I've worked out a way in which I might be able to randomise trees more easily.

 

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16 hours ago, puje said:

So as far as I understand it, the difference types of troops are drawn from different slots in the game data? So while Syrian reserves and regulars might look alike in the game, their stats and looks come from different data? Am I getting this right? 

I assume you are basing US troops on Syrian Airborne because their skills and equipment would the closest equal to Americans in the Nam era? 

Yes to both questions.

You cannot mod the underlying game mechanics in anyway.

The "classic" example of a mod swap, I once heard, was if you swapped an M1A2 Abrams model into a WW2 game as a Sherman then that "Abrams" would still get knocked out by PzIV's.

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12 hours ago, Combatintman said:

@37mm did you do much with the trees on the Barras map and flattered obviously that you used my work as a testbed for this project - I had a hissy fit trying to randomise them when making it.

At some point when I can make time for CM, I might crank out some maps of Phuoc Tuy Province for this project now that I've worked out a way in which I might be able to randomise trees more easily.

 

I did nothing but add some extra bushes (oh & the decorative rice paddies) to the map (Here's the link).

The trees are the same mix of CMA/CMSF2 vegitation I used for the original Operation Barras video.

The addition of @EZ's excellent terrain & grass doodads really help sell the Jungle feel though.

Looking forward to the maps!

 

 

Edited by 37mm
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15 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

PS - @37mm  Any chance of replacing the splash screen & associated music with a bit of this:

Real life has struck which means I'll not be around much for the next couple of weeks.

However I'll finish off an improved version of the current mod compilation (fixing up the various issues you highlighted) by Monday & send you the link.

 

In terms of the overall project I think we should stick to trying to do ARVN vs VC at first. If the project is succesful then we can later try to bring the US (perhaps even the Aussies) into it.

I see these as the major requirements...

(i) A VC mod for Combatants. It struck me that the vanilla ninja fighter models would make better VC combatants but all my attempts to do this model swap have failed so far. I know @Zveroboy1 has already done the reverse (model his Taliban combatants as fighters) so I'm hopeful this can be done.

(ii) Something to be done about the roofs... @RockinHarry (& I believe the team doing the Africa Korp mod for CMFI) have swapped flat roofs into a WW2 setting. Can the reverse be done?

(iii) Some test maps (Your looks good already from what I can tell) & Syrian Airborne vs Combatant test scenarios.

(iv) A Vietnemese voice mod. I've acquired suitable files for this already, so I can box this off easily enough... a few weeks from now.

(v) Factions icons & UI details like that. Some loading screen bitmaps would be nice too.

(vi) Anybody good with faces? The current Asian faces by @mjkerner & @Coon Dog are passable but at the very least normal bitmaps need to be made for them & I'm not sure how that's done.

 

So if anyone can help out & chip in with some of that lot during the next few weeks that would be greatly appreciated!

 

 

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5 hours ago, 37mm said:

In terms of the overall project I think we should stick to trying to do ARVN vs VC at first. If the project is succesful then we can later try to bring the US (perhaps even the Aussies) into it.

That makes a lot of sense.....My inclination would be to use Uncon Fighters for VC. They have almost the right sort of weapons (although their RPG-7 & SPG-9 ammo will be a generation or two too good) and their ability to remain concealed is very appropriate.

I think it might be a good idea to mod Uncon Combatants as generic Vietnamese tribesmen that could be used for several different groups on both sides of the conflict.

Very few of the game's AFVs are actually suitable.....The oldest T-55 in CM:SF2 is considerably more sophisticated than a NVA T-54, CM:A would actually be the best title for this area as it has a (mobile) T-54 and the BMP-1D might just about do to represent a PT-76. 

On the other side, the cupboard is completely bare when it comes to ARVN M48 Pattons, M41 Walker Bulldogs or M24 Chaffees, more worryingly we can't even do a Deuce and a Half or a MUTT**.  In this area we might actually do better with one of the WWII titles.

Goddammit @Battlefront.com we really need a sandbox game!  :D

**  Actually, come to think of it, the Ural 4320 could probably serve as a 2.5ton Truck and the UAZ-469 might just about make a (lousy) MUTT (with too many seats).

PS - Modders' Challenge.....Could the Taxi Model be entirely replaced with a WWII Jeep? 

 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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I don't know if I'll be able to contribute to this project but I think it is important that before proceeding you think long and hard about which type of unit will represent what and have some sort of plan. Think about the pros and cons. But like Sgt.Squarehead mentioned above, it is perhaps quite a stretch to use SF2 as a base for this : weapons in a way but mostly equipment and even buildings are all drastically different between the Syrian conflict portrayed in SF2 and the Vietnam era.

3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

How about using Syrian Mechanised (camo fatigues by default) for ARVN and Syrian Infantry (khaki fatigues by default) for NVA?

One problem with this idea could be that ideally you'd want to find someone who could make a 3d model of a Viet Cong rice hat and one of a NVA pith/safari helmet. And both Syrian mech infantry and reserves use the same helmet.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Zveroboy1 said:

One problem with this idea could be that ideally you'd want to find someone who could make a 3d model of a Viet Cong rice hat and one of a NVA pith/safari helmet. And both Syrian mech infantry and reserves use the same helmet.

 

 

 

 

I think a boonie would be a better choice for VC. I really don't see how wearing a half meter wide, yellow hat would be a good idea in a jungle combat situation. 

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Well perhaps yes. But my point is that mech, reserve and airborne infantry all wear the same helmet in the game. So perhaps this is worth taking into consideration in case a modder volunteers to create helmets before a final decision is made on the type of units which will be used to represent the various sides. But then again maybe finding a 3D modder is not likely in which case just disregard the whole thing and go with whatever you want.

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On 5/23/2019 at 9:16 AM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

If the gang's all here, I'll happily knock up a small experimental map.....See how Vietnamese I can make it look.  B)

When I was on the beta-test/development team for the Campaign Series::Vietnam game, I made an absolutely huge map that covered an area from about 10 Km south of Hue to about 5 Km north of Dong Hoi and from the Laotian border to the coast of Vietnam. Once I have come up with the best way to make maps using the CM map editor, I would be more than happy to work on this project. I love making maps.

Edited by WhiteWolf65
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14 minutes ago, Zveroboy1 said:

Well perhaps yes. But my point is that mech, reserve and airborne infantry all wear the same helmet in the game. So perhaps this is worth taking into consideration in case a modder volunteers to create helmets before a final decision is made on the type of units which will be used to represent the various sides. But then again maybe finding a 3D modder is not likely in which case just disregard the whole thing and go with whatever you want.

Doing the uniforms for the NVA, Viet Cong, and the ARVN units might take some serious modding but I have no experience with this.

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18 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

That makes a lot of sense.....My inclination would be to use Uncon Fighters for VC. They have almost the right sort of weapons (although their RPG-7 & SPG-9 ammo will be a generation or two too good) and their ability to remain concealed is very appropriate.

I think it might be a good idea to mod Uncon Combatants as generic Vietnamese tribesmen that could be used for several different groups on both sides of the conflict.

Very few of the game's AFVs are actually suitable.....The oldest T-55 in CM:SF2 is considerably more sophisticated than a NVA T-54, CM:A would actually be the best title for this area as it has a (mobile) T-54 and the BMP-1D might just about do to represent a PT-76. 

On the other side, the cupboard is completely bare when it comes to ARVN M48 Pattons, M41 Walker Bulldogs or M24 Chaffees, more worryingly we can't even do a Deuce and a Half or a MUTT**.  In this area we might actually do better with one of the WWII titles.

Goddammit @Battlefront.com we really need a sandbox game!  :D

**  Actually, come to think of it, the Ural 4320 could probably serve as a 2.5ton Truck and the UAZ-469 might just about make a (lousy) MUTT (with too many seats).

PS - Modders' Challenge.....Could the Taxi Model be entirely replaced with a WWII Jeep? 

 

I thought only Combatants get the concealment bonus?

I had some thoughts on vehicles but that'd be a later addition.

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13 hours ago, puje said:

Don't Syrian Airborne troops have individual NVGs though? 

Yeah that is a good spot... I can alpha channel them away visually but their effect would remain.

Night battles would have to rely on the concealment bonus & terrain to counteract the NVG's.

No other troop type in CMSF has 5mm AR's, no body armour & relatively weak rockets (HE wise).

It's a shame we can't get mech or guard with AK-74's (I'm sure we could in the original CMSF).

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10 hours ago, Zveroboy1 said:

I don't know if I'll be able to contribute to this project but I think it is important that before proceeding you think long and hard about which type of unit will represent what and have some sort of plan. Think about the pros and cons.

I think you're right... perhaps rather than trying to recreate one specific conflict from the 60's we follow the path BFC (and indeed the Euroscape modders) took & aim to create a kind of hypothetical sandbox.

As I said I won't be around much for the next few weeks so I'll think it over.

Edited by 37mm
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Here are the latest postcards from a slightly retuned version of Ven Song, using the current iteration of terrain mods courtesy of @37mm:

SPUE8l1.jpg

k4AhvXr.jpg

I'm kind of new to full-scale mods in CM2, so this is a grand voyage of discovery for me.....Have to confess, with the new splash-screen (& music):

NcMCNL4.jpg

Plus the new sky-box and ambient sounds in game, it's becoming quite an immersive experience.  B)

 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead
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