Questionable AI Behavior.

[weapon2010 93]

 So just a question, why would a veteran MG team behind a hedgerow just decide to run out of the great cover  and torwards the enemy and certain death?They are under heavy suppression.

[IanL 1,531]

Question back to you is this from a freshly started game under 4.01 or one that started in 4.00 and was updated? What scenario or QB map are you using? Several of us are trying to look at this and are not seeing examples of this behaviour so we are trying to narrow down the circumstances. Saved games in the usual place would be appreciated. We have logged several bugs based on what you guys are seeing when we can reproduce them over the last few days. This one is another theme that has several mentions and I'd like to rule it in as "sorry that happened to you but war is hell" or present a bug to the boss.

[weapon2010 93]

converted from 4.00 to 4.01 mid game

[weapon2010 93]

im in no position to say what a bug is or isnt, but i just try to apply common sense if I wanted to stay alive.It is scenario Sacrifice of a New Religion

[IanL 1,531]

I hear ya. I personally don't like the stories I'm hearing - it sounds like too much crazy behaviour - if its just a confusion from converting mid game then that would suck but not be the end of the world but if this a regular occurrence then its not good. I'm doing to play this in 4.01 and see what I get and I'll go from there. Thanks.

[weapon2010 93]

my previous mid patch conversions had some crazy airplane sounds for a few turns, but no AI behavior issues

[sburke 1,866]

definitely not an issue of friendly map edge.  The settings for that one are good.  Also no shell holes to induce that behavior as happened sometimes prior with 4.0 before patch.

[ASL Veteran 176]

I can't tell from the video where you are on the map, but the AI plan for the Germans has the forward units withdraw back towards the town at specific time intervals.  The AI in the game is completely unaware of it's surroundings and has no clue what you are doing.  The soldiers are simply moving to their next assigned waypoint at the designated time.  This plan was also created with no triggers which makes it even less aware than newer plans.

[Howler 128]

3 hours ago, ASL Veteran said:

I can't tell from the video where you are on the map, but the AI plan for the Germans has the forward units withdraw back towards the town at specific time intervals.  The AI in the game is completely unaware of it's surroundings and has no clue what you are doing.  The soldiers are simply moving to their next assigned waypoint at the designated time.  This plan was also created with no triggers which makes it even less aware than newer plans.

Watching his video, I assumed he was the Axis player. I saw an Axis unit run forward and towards enemy firing position(s) (judging by the tracers) to a position in the open.

Please ignore if I got this wrong.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Howler

[Warts 'n' all 604]

Yes, that is what I thought too.

[ASL Veteran 176]

AI behavior could mean anything depending upon the context.  He could be talking about the Tac AI for his own troops and if that's what he is talking about what is shown in the video could be unusual, although, once again, depending upon the context the 'friendly map edge' could be a determining factor here since troops will run back towards the friendly edge.  However, he just asks about AI behavior and since the American force is the attacker in 'Sacrifice for a New Religion' it seemed probable that he was playing as the American against the German AI and that he was questioning the 'AI behavior' of his enemy.  It's possible that he was playing as the German defender, but if that's the case he would probably have plenty of examples of American AI controlled troops performing the same illogical tactical maneuvers since the troops actions are timed.  Only he can say which side he was playing and what difficulty level he was playing at.

[Howler 128]

Perfectly reasonable  assumptions to make given there's already a thread discussing this matter as it relates to BN.

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Howler

[weapon2010 93]

10 hours ago, ASL Veteran said:

Only he can say which side he was playing and what difficulty level he was playing at.

pbem, Im defending as German, elite level

[Sgt.Squarehead 1,030]

As this seems to be a CM:BN problem only, might it be better to let this thread wither & die, keeping the discussion going in the thread in the CM:BN Forum, here:

@MarkEzra has posted a test file to help diagnose the issue.....I had quite unexpected results. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Sgt.Squarehead

[RockinHarry 328]

No idea if it´s a QB or user created mission but I see the following: The team received fire from unknow location/enemy and the -1 leader then made a fubared decision to move to where he thought the enemy fire is coming from NOT.

[sburke 1,866]

I just finished a tough fought battle in CMBN where I was the German defender and never saw any indication of behavior like this.  If there is an issue then we'll need to dig a bit as it isn't consistent and we would absolutely need save files.  Without those we might as well just close the thread.  Videos and screenshots won't be accepted for suggesting fixes to the TAC AI.  As it is a pbem I assume those should be easily obtainable.

[weapon2010 93]

save files have been delivered

[sburke 1,866]

1 minute ago, weapon2010 said:

save files have been delivered

cool thx, it really does make all the difference

[weapon2010 93]

17 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

No idea if it´s a QB or user created mission but I see the following: The team received fire from unknow location/enemy and the -1 leader then made a fubared decision to move to where he thought the enemy fire is coming from NOT.

that could be the answer and maybe Im just paranoid , based on my "I hope this isnt another bug " thread, and also mabye Im paranoid beacause we did live with a broken Tac Ai for about a year that was acknowledged and fixed, its not like Im crazy.

[ASL Veteran 176]

11 hours ago, weapon2010 said:

that could be the answer and maybe Im just paranoid , based on my "I hope this isnt another bug " thread, and also mabye Im paranoid beacause we did live with a broken Tac Ai for about a year that was acknowledged and fixed, its not like Im crazy.

If there are problems with the patch then we do need to know about them, but in order for something to be fixed it usually needs to be happening on a consistent basis and / or reproduceable by Charles because if he can't find the part of the code that's causing the problem then he can't fix it.  That's assuming there even is a problem with the code to begin with.  Sometimes game behavior can simply seem odd because we, as players, assign our own logic to what the pixeltruppen should be doing at any particular point in time but the game has its own logic and sometimes those two things come into conflict in unusual situations.

[ASL Veteran 176]

12 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

No idea if it´s a QB or user created mission but I see the following: The team received fire from unknow location/enemy and the -1 leader then made a fubared decision to move to where he thought the enemy fire is coming from NOT.

The scenario comes with the Market Garden module IIRC - when the Fallschirmjager were added to the game.

[RockinHarry 328]

13 hours ago, ASL Veteran said:

The scenario comes with the Market Garden module IIRC - when the Fallschirmjager were added to the game.

thanks! Just noticed I missed that post where  "Sacrifice of a New Religion" was mentioned. I have MG, but rarely played any the included missions. Always beeing busy in editor usually. 

[General Jack Ripper 539]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 6:45 PM, RockinHarry said:

No idea if it´s a QB or user created mission but I see the following: The team received fire from unknow location/enemy and the -1 leader then made a fubared decision to move to where he thought the enemy fire is coming from NOT.

Not to mention they weren't listed as 'Pinned' until AFTER they started moving.

If they had poor motivation they would have pinned sooner, and avoided the movement entirely.

Highly motivated, with poor leadership. Ouch.

[Sgt.Squarehead 1,030]

3 hours ago, General Jack Ripper said:

Highly motivated, with poor leadership. Ouch.

You called, Infidel? 

[RockinHarry 328]

On 5/20/2019 at 4:12 PM, General Jack Ripper said:

Not to mention they weren't listed as 'Pinned' until AFTER they started moving.

If they had poor motivation they would have pinned sooner, and avoided the movement entirely.

Highly motivated, with poor leadership. Ouch.

from what I learned the past years is always have a close watch on those minus leaders. Always be prepared for something really "unexpected" to happen in most unfortunate situations. For mission design I appeared to have found bits of an exploit when I want certain units (player or AI) to be more likely raising hands and show the flag. This only in appropiate situations (isolated and enemy units close by) and a  -2 leader i.e is the best candiate for this to happen more frequently, the more if he´s also out of C2 (to superior) link.