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weapon2010

I hope this Is not a New Bug.

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@Bulletpoint discovered the following which I'm paraphrasing:

 If the shooting unit does not spot the friendly unit, small-caliber area fire will kill friendlies. Try it out in a night battle, order your tank to machinegun some distant field and then send in some infantry. If the tank doesn't spot the infantry, the infantry will take casualties. Then order your tank to fire machineguns at friendly infantry that are very close in front of the tank. The tank can fire away all day without causing any casualties.  It also works with rifles.

Not sure if that's what happened in the above case.  I'm just putting it forward as a possibility.  

 

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Posted (edited)

Interesting.....Pretty sure my dudes in Coup could see what they were shooting at, but couldn't identify them as friendlies (it was always uncons on regulars or vice versa), which given the (no losses) outcome, matches the above idea rather well.  B)

PS - Sometime wish that applied to HE too.....Played a CM:BS scenario the other day, half my losses were due to mines or random mortaring, the other half due to BMPs inadvertently putting HE rounds into clumps of trees occupied by my own men.  :rolleyes:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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1 hour ago, MOS:96B2P said:

@Bulletpoint discovered the following which I'm paraphrasing:

 If the shooting unit does not spot the friendly unit, small-caliber area fire will kill friendlies. Try it out in a night battle, order your tank to machinegun some distant field and then send in some infantry. If the tank doesn't spot the infantry, the infantry will take casualties. Then order your tank to fire machineguns at friendly infantry that are very close in front of the tank. The tank can fire away all day without causing any casualties.  It also works with rifles.

Not sure if that's what happened in the above case.  I'm just putting it forward as a possibility.  

 

I was so curious about this feature that I just tested it out...

Fortress Italy, latest patch, Iron. Crappy HMG-armed tanks vs. Italian "volunteers".
Turns out a full contact or even a tentative contact marker will prevent casualties. Makes a lot of sense given CM's abstractions.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, weapon2010 said:

hes not firing at the Infantry contact, every burst is dead on at the commander, in my opinion, i could understand a random burst at the panther, its a persistent attack

That's definitely a bug, no matter how the reactions on your post try to explain it. I don't mind bugs like that though. Call it friendly fire. What wories me more is the tank commander that doesn't take cover, despite being fired on several times.

Edited by Aragorn2002

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Who is the guy hanging out the left side of the turret? And why does the hit report say the right side of the Turret when plainly the fire is striking the left side? There is a lot of screwy stuff going on here.

:wacko:

Michael

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43 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

Who is the guy hanging out the left side of the turret? And why does the hit report say the right side of the Turret when plainly the fire is striking the left side? There is a lot of screwy stuff going on here.

:wacko:

Michael

Yes, well, after all this is just a game. A simulation. There are limits to realism.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

Who is the guy hanging out the left side of the turret? And why does the hit report say the right side of the Turret when plainly the fire is striking the left side? There is a lot of screwy stuff going on here.

That's an attempt to capture the exact moment the tank commander got hit (he's the guy hanging out of the turret, he's in the process of dropping dead).  The fire was indeed coming from the tank's right and hitting the right side of the turret, however I believe the lethal hit was caused by a ricochet off the wall  just visible at bottom left of the image.

If anyone doubts this is possible:

'No more iron!'  :lol:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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 I dont doubt he was killed by the ricochet, thats not the issue, the isuue is why is the mg team so far off course from the American contact in the building and conduct a "persistent attack on the on his Panther tank commander"?Why did he not button up immediatley? 

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Posted (edited)

Try to view it in a more abstract fashion.....MG team spotter glimpses infantry in trees, tells (very inexperienced) gunner to open up and gives a direction to the target.   Gunner was dozing, just hears the command to open fire & does so.  Team leader yells at him to adjust his fire, but now there's a MG-42 going full chat and the gunner can't lip-read.

Meanwhile the Panther commander sees the arc of tracer coming towards him, thinks 'Those idiots couldn't be firing at me?  Could They?".....The first bullet enters his head shortly after that second thought leaves it. 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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well thats one way to look at it I guess, but i think its a behavior we should be aware of coming on the latest change to the game engine, as we all know now, patches can have unintended effects on other areas of the engine

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Posted (edited)

With all due respect, so far what we've seen is a one off freak occurrence, roughly on par with that dude managing to shoot himself in the ear with a .50cal rifle.....If we start to see a sustained pattern of HMG teams opening up on friendly tanks, then I'd agree we should be concerned, but as it stands I'd put it down to rotten luck & move on.

5 minutes ago, weapon2010 said:

or this just could be the beautiful randomness of the engine?

CM has always done this sort of stuff.....One of the things that got me hooked on CM:BO was seeing a Cromwell's AP round ricochet off a Tiger, spiral up into the air and land on an infantry unit, causing casualties! 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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ok next turn, after my mg team was not happy with the assination of my Panther commander her eagerly turns his sights on to my halftrack on his left flank afetr hes been clear intstructions to attack the American contact, does this mg team know the end of the war is near and is a traitor?Is this still a one off Sgt Squarehead?

first 30 seconds

 

next 30 seconds

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I've certainly never seen such a sustained attempt to murder one's own units before**.....My dudes took pot-shots with AKMs at a range of a few tens of meters, to no effect.  Fortunately nobody had GLs or RPGs so no harm was done. 

As I always play in Iron Mode I'll try to keep my eyes open for more of these friendly-fire incidents.  I've occasionally found units unexpectedly dead and generally assumed they caught a stray or a shell fragment.....Now I'm not so sure the little blighters aren't fragging each other.  :rolleyes:

**  By a unit that was not firing HE full-auto through trees.....BMPs are lethal to everyone if you use 'em in a forest!  :o

PS - I still think the root cause of this issue is likely to be the combination of the -2 Leadership and the lousy visibility.....Gunner Knappe:

i0k9v582cak11.jpg?width=480&auto=webp&s=

Is not altogether the cream of the crop, is he?  :D

 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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2 hours ago, weapon2010 said:

unless of course rouge dissension is programmed into the engine? what other conclusion can we come to?

Panther commander lost to him in a poker game and refused to pay up? Or Panther commanders wife paid gunner to whack him. 

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Posted (edited)

What time of day is that happening? as I recall night time / dusk gives a distict possibilitiy of friendly fire occuring.

Was this the Panther and HT getting shot at?

panther-fake-m10-ardennes-f2.jpg

0f09025e0555ac791a298bf26c8f034e.jpg

Whoops..  Give em extra carrots in their rations 😉

 

Edited by Wicky

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With Weapon2010 we play pbem is the same game as he presented. My infantry also likes to shoot their tanks.
Infantry with the order of movement, the position of the tank already known in the previous round. It's probably not a coincidence, the new installation would only help, there is no installer with the last amendment.

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