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wadepm

MG Deploy/Pack up times

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I have a question for machine gun grogs: what's up with the deploy/packup times?  Specifically I have two questions:

  1.   Why did the deploy times for most MGs were cut in half in the later modules?
  2.   Why is the deploy time for the Soviet MGs so long?  I understand they are on wheels, which presumably is why the packup time is so short, but why then the long setup time?  I would have thought the wheels would help with the setup too. 

Here is a table of the MGs in the game. I skipped the Italians... 

Machine Gun Module Deploy Pack up
M1914 A4  BN 21 14
M1917 A1 BN 21 16
M1917 A1 FI 21 16
M1917 A1 FB 10 16
M1919 A4 FI 21 14
M1919 A4 FB 10 14
M2HB BN 23 21
M2HB FI 23 21
M2HB FB 11 21
Maxim M1910 RT 27 0
SG43 RT 26 0
MG34 FI 20 14
MG34 RT 10 14
MG42 FI 20 14
MG42 RT 10 14
Vickers CF 21 17
Vickers MG 10 17
Vickers  GL 10 17

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I'm sure I remember reading and also experiencing within the game that the deploy/pack times are not hard values. They are variable and changed based upon various factors (can't remember what factors). So were you taking that into account in your list above?

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37 minutes ago, Oliver_88 said:

I'm sure I remember reading and also experiencing within the game that the deploy/pack times are not hard values. They are variable and changed based upon various factors (can't remember what factors). So were you taking that into account in your list above?

No, I didn't know that but it makes sense.  I imagine if they are under fire the values would change a bit...

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Posted (edited)

It´s basically just unit experience and whether beeing in a house or not for determining deploy/pack times, whatever the figures are based on RL. I.e a conscript will take double the time than an elite crew, with regulars right in the middle. I also noticed differences for HMG able to act in "half deployed" mode, i.e MG34/42. Unfortunately I don´t have FI or RT, so can´t compare. 

Edited by RockinHarry

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The values I posted are out of the manuals, they are (I think) for regular troops.  The lower values for the M2HB (for example) don't mention "half deployed" or not.  Can you even do that with a 50 call MG?  

Here is a table of deploy times for the SG43 based on experience:

Conscript 34
Green 29
Regular 26
Veteran 22
Crack 19
Elite 18

The pack up times are all 0.  

Anyway, my basic question remains - why does it take longer to set up a SG43 than a M2HB?  The SG43 is on wheels and pretty much already deployed.  The M2HB is much heavier (128 lbs w/ tripod vs 90 lbs on wheels) and in two pieces that need to be put together.  Just seems weird to me...

 

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1 hour ago, wadepm said:

Anyway, my basic question remains - why does it take longer to set up a SG43 than a M2HB?  The SG43 is on wheels and pretty much already deployed.  The M2HB is much heavier (128 lbs w/ tripod vs 90 lbs on wheels) and in two pieces that need to be put together.  Just seems weird to me...

 

16 hours ago, wadepm said:

M2HB   BN   23   21

M2HB   FI     23   21

M2HB  FB    11  21

I'm curious about the deployment being twice as fast for the late war (FB) use of the weapon. I don't have FB so I can't comment further on configuration. It almost seems that the times are much faster across the board post BN/FI/CF releases.

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On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 8:36 PM, wadepm said:
  1. Why is the deploy time for the Soviet MGs so long?  I understand they are on wheels, which presumably is why the packup time is so short, but why then the long setup time?  I would have thought the wheels would help with the setup too.

Which ones are water-cooled, and which ones are air-cooled?
Which are belt-fed, and which are magazine fed?
Which are light enough to be man-portable, and which require multiple crewmembers?
Which have an optional bipod, and which fire only from a tripod?

There's a heck of a lot more questions to ask and answer here besides, "I don't get why a gun on wheels has a setup time."

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, General Jack Ripper said:

Which ones are water-cooled, and which ones are air-cooled?
Which are belt-fed, and which are magazine fed?
Which are light enough to be man-portable, and which require multiple crewmembers?
Which have an optional bipod, and which fire only from a tripod?

There's a heck of a lot more questions to ask and answer here besides, "I don't get why a gun on wheels has a setup time."

He said later that the SG43 takes more time to set up than an M2HB.

The two HMG's the Soviets have are the Maxim gun, which is water-cooled, and the SG43 which is air-cooled. They're both belt-fed and on wheels with a gun shield.

I'm not sure how transport over large distances was done (I think it was broken down in multiple parts and carried on the soldier's back), but in combat they would sometimes be pushed forward while still firing. I'm not joking.

Otherwise they would be dragged around, and I'm sure at least two men could lift them up if the need arises. I think the current logic the game uses is the breaking down into multiple parts thing, which is probably why it's so long.

Edited by Frenchy56

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16 minutes ago, Frenchy56 said:

Otherwise they would be dragged around, and I'm sure at least two men could lift them up if the need arises. I think the current logic the game uses is the breaking down into multiple parts thing, which is probably why it's so long.

I think it's intended to be an abstraction representing the ability to quickly move the gun instantly, but transporting it over any real distance would require some fiddling, at least to clear the gun and stow the ammo, etc.

Remember, you can deploy machineguns over a short distance without having a setup time. So you could grab your russian mg, move it instantly (zero pack up time), move 4 action spots, and deploy instantly. So you can potentially be very mobile with it. But the gun is still heavy, and even being dragged you clear the gun and then have to emplace it, check your line of fire, then reload the gun before firing.

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7 minutes ago, General Jack Ripper said:

I think it's intended to be an abstraction representing the ability to quickly move the gun instantly, but transporting it over any real distance would require some fiddling, at least to clear the gun and stow the ammo, etc.

Remember, you can deploy machineguns over a short distance without having a setup time. So you could grab your russian mg, move it instantly (zero pack up time), move 4 action spots, and deploy instantly. So you can potentially be very mobile with it. But the gun is still heavy, and even being dragged you clear the gun and then have to emplace it, check your line of fire, then reload the gun before firing.

Fom what you are saying the pack up time should be some amount of time if you are moving a distance further than 4 action squares.  But it is always 0 no matter how far you are moving.   I ran some tests with the SG43 - no metter how far you move, 1, 2, 3 or 4 squares, the pack up time is always 0 and the set up time is always what it says on the GUI.   

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13 hours ago, wadepm said:

Fom what you are saying the pack up time should be some amount of time if you are moving a distance further than 4 action squares.  But it is always 0 no matter how far you are moving.   I ran some tests with the SG43 - no metter how far you move, 1, 2, 3 or 4 squares, the pack up time is always 0 and the set up time is always what it says on the GUI.   

No. I deliberately said zero pack up time to simulate the ability to wheel the gun away.

If you move one to four action spots and toggle the deploy weapon command to 'on', you will deploy the gun instantly after stopping. This is a known game mechanic.

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"Guys, why aren't you setting up the gun?"

"The guy didn't click the thing so we have to wait for the clock to run out so we can do it ourselves."

"Oh, he probably doesn't know he can do that since it isn't in the manual" 

"Yep. So here we sit while the world crashes in around us..." 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, wadepm said:

"Guys, why aren't you setting up the gun?"

"The guy didn't click the thing so we have to wait for the clock to run out so we can do it ourselves."

"Oh, he probably doesn't know he can do that since it isn't in the manual" 

"Yep. So here we sit while the world crashes in around us..." 

Alternately:

Cue thread title … 'The AI is broken because it always sets up MGs when I don't want it to (insert game title) is unplayable'. I think someone has already complained about the British 2" mortar in the WW2 titles and the 51mm mortar in CMSF2 always setting up when it stops at waypoint. The behaviour doesn't allow the player to hide the unit.

Edited by Combatintman

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Will they hide after they setup?  Would it be better if you always had to tell them to deploy?  The setup time would start ticking from that point...

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13 hours ago, wadepm said:

"The guy didn't click the thing so we have to wait for the clock to run out so we can do it ourselves."

"Oh, he probably doesn't know he can do that since it isn't in the manual"

'Deploy Weapon' is a toggle switch. How hard is it to toggle a switch?
It's either ON or OFF.

Sheesh. :rolleyes:

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You should play with the SG43 and the Maxim, they don't have "Deploy Weapons" buttons.  They automatically deploy at the end of any move, no matter the distance.  It always takes the same amount of time.   The DShK does have the button, however.  You can move it around in the deployed position as far as you want and it will be instantly ready to go.  But you can only "move," all of the other move modes are not available.       

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