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WhiteWolf65

A-10?????

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I just placed an order for CMBS and noticed in the game TO&E list that a very important air asset for the United States is missing. The A-10 Warthog. I am sure that this has been covered in past posts, but I do hope that any future add-ons for CMBS has the A-10 included. JMTCW.

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Have been following the DoD controversy over the A10 from some years.  The USAF wants to do everything from high altitude using precision weapons, while the ground forces want low altitude support.  Helicopter support has proven to be too vulnerable, and hence the pressure to keep the A10 is balancing the pressure to retire it. 

From what I understand the air force is dominated by the "Fighter Pilot" mentality/mafia and they have general disdain for ground support.  But, every fight we get into, it's the A10 that gets requested for support. 

There may also be pressure from Defense Contractors who much prefer to make the most expensive high tech toys that require the most expensive maintenance - all helping the contractors' profits.  (That's one of the reason use of SF was resisted until a decade or so ago.  Contractors want to built nuke subs and very expensive tanks and aircraft etc.)  The A10 is relatively low tech and cheap.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Erwin said:

The A10 is relatively low tech and cheap.

It's also very survivable. It has repeatedly brought its pilots home with damage that would have destroyed most any other plane in the USAF arsenal. Which also means the contractor doesn't get to charge Uncle Sammie for replacements.

Michael

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A-10 is in CMSF2 but sees remarkably little use. I haven't played with it since Red side got AA assets so I don't know how vulnerable it is. If its just dropping iron/smart bombs it'll be no different in the game from F15.

...I just ran a quick test. A10s in CMSF2. They appear to come in at medium altitude. They can be shot down almost as reliably as everything else. But once you're out of ammo they're deadly. I don't know what hit that Shilka, it looks like a Maverick missile.

A10 test B.jpg

A10 test.jpg

Edited by MikeyD

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11 hours ago, MikeyD said:

If its just dropping iron/smart bombs it'll be no different in the game from F15.

That's the point isn't it.  In game terms it's just math.  A missile or bomb from an A10 works just like that from any other aircraft.  I think people fantasize about seeing an A10 swoop across the map, and that isn't going to happen. 

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11 hours ago, MikeyD said:

I don't know what hit that Shilka, it looks like a Maverick missile.

As near as I can tell the Maverick is probably the most deadly AT AGM we posses and it has been around a long time. The only thing that can be said against it is that it is bigger and heavier than the Hellfire, so you can't carry as many of them.

Michael

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The A10 has shown survivability in a theater much different than CMBS. Whether it would fare so well there is another question. As to helicopters their use so far is also not indicative as the theater decisions are based on different functional roles.  

One interesting item in the US military review of the Iraq war (see general forum thread for document link). There are major concerns with the military deep strike theory for heliborne aircraft. The failed attack on the Medina division was a major eye opener about a lot of things that were brought up in NTC.  Proliferation of cellular communications and low tech options to hinder strategy.  In the attack on the Medina division the original plan was scrubbed due to airspace considerations from the 101st and the new plan had them cruising over urban areas well after the suppressive fires had been lifted and after the enemy was alert.  Good read. 

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I'm no air general, but could make an argument that the USAF would only be able to support so many bases within operational range of the combat area and many more aircraft would be involved in air superiority missions than would be the case for CMSF after a few days. In such a situation the A-10 would likely be a low priority asset for the USAF to bring into the theatre. Go ahead shoot my argument down (no pun intended). One aircraft that would actually finally see operation use in this Black Sea war would be the F-22 I would think, though it likely would not be doing any ground attacks.

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I recall The US Air Force had attempted European Theater-style deep strike 'gorilla formations' of 20--50 aircraft over Iraq accompanied by jammer aircraft but quickly abandoned the idea as dangerous and extremely unwieldy. A-10 wings were basically the only US aircraft trained in high threat low altitude CAS. During the 1991 war A-10s had been tasked with locating and destroying Iraq's infamous mobile SCUD launchers after several strikes on Saudia Arabia and Israel. Despite many claims of success it was revealed after the war that the A-10s had not destroyed a single mobile Scud launcher in all of their patrols.

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This has absolutely nothing to do with this thread but I thought many of you might get a kick out of it nonetheless. My nephew is a retired Air Force Lt. Colonel. He was the REO on a F-15 Strike Eagle and flew missions over Bosnia but did not participate in either of the Iraqi conflicts. However, he did tell me some stories told to him by other F-15 Strike Eagle crews that did fly in the first Gulf War. The one that made me laugh was a F-15 that was returning from a Scud hunting mission. The crew did not find any Scuds but as they were returning the pilots threat display lit up like a big red square. He thought he hit the jackpot and dropped his ordnance on the area. When he returned to base, they viewed the camera footage and everyone started laughing. The pilot had dropped his load on a herd of sheep!!!!!

Edited by WhiteWolf65

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5 hours ago, Erwin said:

Glad that PETA didn't get ahold of him.  That's a war crime innit?

:wacko:

My wife worked with a female A10 pilot who is now a pol in Arizona:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_McSally

I reserve comment about PETA.

Tucson? I lived in Tucson in 2006/2007 and watched the A-10s from Davis-Mothan AFB fly over my house every morning on their way to the firing range and every evening as they returned to base. Very impressive piece of military hardware and very glad I was never on the receiving end of that GAU-30.

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Have been in Tempe-Phoenix area for a few years but moving again outa state and then abroad over the next few months. 

Used to be in southern Utah and would regularly see A10 squadrons training flying low through the rugged terrain as it's similar to Afghanistan.  I recall how I didn't hear anything until suddenly the A10's were close overhead.

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Parallel dimension where Elvis and Jim Morrison are still alive too. The bad thing is there are still a few posters that haven't been banned yet so I prefer to come here.

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On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 4:37 PM, Erwin said:

Have been in Tempe-Phoenix area for a few years but moving again outa state and then abroad over the next few months. 

Used to be in southern Utah and would regularly see A10 squadrons training flying low through the rugged terrain as it's similar to Afghanistan.  I recall how I didn't hear anything until suddenly the A10's were close overhead.

Not wrong there - a very quiet platform indeed ... until it starts giving out the good news.

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6 hours ago, Sequoia said:

Parallel dimension where Elvis and Jim Morrison are still alive too. The bad thing is there are still a few posters that haven't been banned yet so I prefer to come here.

I am confident this applies to many of us. I say this as I am basking in the glow of my lava lamp.

Edited by WhiteWolf65

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On 2/26/2019 at 11:32 AM, Combatintman said:

Not wrong there - a very quiet platform indeed ... until it starts giving out the good news.

Back in the '90s there were two flight sims focussed on the A-10, A-10 Attack and A-10 Cuba. I had great fun playing them both even though they fell very far short in the realism department. One of the ways that it stimulated my skepticism was the way it modeled engine noise. To me it sounded like nothing so much as a sewing machine of some kind!

:lol:

Michael

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5 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

Back in the '90s there were two flight sims focussed on the A-10, A-10 Attack and A-10 Cuba. I had great fun playing them both even though they fell very far short in the realism department. One of the ways that it stimulated my skepticism was the way it modeled engine noise. To me it sounded like nothing so much as a sewing machine of some kind!

:lol:

Michael

I don't know what it's like in the cockpit but from the ground underneath them it's like the buzz of a 1000 lb bumblebee. Not really jet like at all. I loved those 2 games as well. Had them both way back when.

Back when I was in the Army A-10's were instantly the groundpounder's best friend. 

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