Realism Suggestions?

[slippy]

Hi all

 

i am looking for some suggestions for rules or mods that players use to add more realism to the game please. Things like command and control, FOW, delayed orders etc,

Thinking of things like the invisible floating icons mod here

 

But i have also seen reference to a C2 discussion (which i can not seem to find at the moment). Just any ideas people have on the subject please would be great.

 

regards

 

slipper

[JoMac]

Hey Slippy...There are some 'Realism Mods' per say from RH, and C&C Rules from BH (and maybe some others) along with some of my 'House Rules' (that I will post-up later). I'm out now, but back later for discussion.

I'm sure other will chime in shortly...

Joe

Edited February 16, 2019 by JoMc67

[StieliAlpha]

One thing, which comes to my mind are the mods, which make the Pixeltroopers lie prone. Can’t remember what the mod name is, but can dig it out on Monday.

The mods do not make a huge difference, but add a little.

[z1812]

This Topic may interest you. 

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

3 hours ago, slippy said:

But i have also seen reference to a C2 discussion (which i can not seem to find at the moment). Just any ideas people have on the subject please would be great.

Paging @MOS:96B2P, @IanL, @sburke.....I know it was one of them!  

Edited February 16, 2019 by Sgt.Squarehead

[slippy]

2 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

Hey Slippy...There are some 'Realism Mods' per say from RH, and C&C Rules from BH (and maybe some others) along with some of my 'House Rules' (that I will post-up later). I'm out now, but back later for discussion.

I'm sure other will chime in shortly...

Joe

Cheers Joe, that would be great.

StieliAlpha, yes thanks mate i have the 'cowering' mod and the buddy aid mods.

 

z1812, yes been following that thread also, no links to mods posted though

 

 

 

[General Jack Ripper]

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/125172-command-friction-20/

[slippy]

14 hours ago, General Jack Ripper said:

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/125172-command-friction-20/

Thats the one, cheers Jack. Still open to any further suggestions.

 

thanks all

[Bulletpoint]

2 hours ago, slippy said:

Still open to any further suggestions.

One of the ideas that's been knocked around the forum is a house rule to not allow area firing any kind of HE against locations without enemy contact markers.

[A Canadian Cat]

@ncc1701e posted an AAR thread with a set of rules for handling area fire and C2 that was quite a bit simpler than the command friction and spread sheet method. Check it out here: 

@Bil Hardenberger and I played a quick battle with a version of these and quite liked it.

[JoMac]

 

Ok, Here is the latest iteration of the 'House Rules' (with the usual subject to change mindset).

1* No Pre-Planned Arty (or Area-Fire from Ground Units) on Turn 1 of a Meeting Engagement, or from Defender. Player will need to Call-In Arty normally. Attacker in Attack/Defense Games are exempt and can use Pre-Planned Arty.

2* Players will let the Computer AI choose what Targets to shoot at (Players can't choose Targets, but can still use Small Arms & HE' Area-Fire'). Player can still use Smoke at anytime and any Location on the Map.

3* Units can conduct Free LOF/LOS checks (and thus conduct Small Arms & HE Area-Fire) at its exact location and any adjacent Action-Spots (total of 9x Action-Spots)...Since Vehicles don't have Action-Spots per say they are allowed to conduct Free LOF/LOS checks 360 degrees out to 20 meters.

4* Players Can't click on Enemy Icons/Units during a Game.

5* Direct Small Arms & HE Area-Fire in a Meeting Engagement can't be more then roughly 2x Action-Spots in any direction from Enemy Icons/Units), however, in Probe/Attack Engagements treat as normal and can shoot anywhere at anytime.

6* Vehicle Smoke Dischargers (not Smoke Shells) is controlled by the Computer AI, and not by the Player.

7* No Armor Detailed Hits, RH Animation Mod, Invisible Floating Enemy Icons, Invisible Casualty Cross, Invisible Enemy Tracer.

8* C&C System...From either BH or the more quicker user friendly version from HT.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, there are some variations to the above 'House Rules' to better suite how you think CM should be played...Below are some examples:

'House Rule' #2 Variation: Allow a Player to Direct-Fire with Mortars (since they Area-Fire anyways). Allow Direct-Fire with HMG Teams or MG equiped Vehicle against other Vehicles (since not doing so will have both AC's pairing off and not shooting at each other, but giving a DF Order will allow for either AC's to potentially damage each other.

'House Rule' #3 Variation: If a Unit checks LOS at a Waypoint that Unit has to keep that Waypoint (and not alter it) for duration of turn...Next turn he can delete any or all Waypoints, and repeat procedure.

 

Edited February 17, 2019 by JoMc67

[MikeyD]

For a (short) while I was attempting to play by strict 'reality' rules. No moving your camera beyond your own forward line, no raising the camera above level one (except to facilitate placing movement orders). No rewinding to double-check where an attack came from. No flying about the battlefield like a bird, just naviagating by '+' jumps from unit to unit. The game suddenly became VERY challenging, even frightening. Being ground level with your troops in a patch of woods during an artillery stonking is unnerving. We don't realize how much we rely on the 'eye of God' view of the battlefield while playing.

[JoMac]

13 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

For a (short) while I was attempting to play by strict 'reality' rules. No moving your camera beyond your own forward line, no raising the camera above level one (except to facilitate placing movement orders). No rewinding to double-check where an attack came from. No flying about the battlefield like a bird, just naviagating by '+' jumps from unit to unit. The game suddenly became VERY challenging, even frightening. Being ground level with your troops in a patch of woods during an artillery stonking is unnerving. We don't realize how much we rely on the 'eye of God' view of the battlefield while playing.

Ahh, Yes...It was 'Franko's True Combat Rules' that came out back in the early CMx1 days...I think played it once or twice at Platoon Level, and it was Challenging for sure.

[slippy]

Thanks everyone, some great ideas and information here, real food for thought. I may even add some of my own, if i do i will post them up.Found Frankos rules also, didn't know about them, so thanks for that.

 

Cheers everyone

 

regards

 

slippy

[RockinHarry]

On 2/16/2019 at 2:54 PM, slippy said:

Hi all

 

i am looking for some suggestions for rules or mods that players use to add more realism to the game please. Things like command and control, FOW, delayed orders etc,

Thinking of things like the invisible floating icons mod here

 

But i have also seen reference to a C2 discussion (which i can not seem to find at the moment). Just any ideas people have on the subject please would be great.

 

regards

 

slipper

For the running CMBN PBEM DAAR (Heirloom_Tomato vs. me) we´re using a particular package composed of the few mods you already know about and two further animation tweaks (idle standing upright to idle kneeling & reload at lowered stance only).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j0ouwaxisea5zdz/z_RHZ_Realism_Pack.zip?dl=0 (included are some readme files giving info in somewhat more detail)

You could try these for CMBN and CMFB, but the other games are untested, with CMBS/CMSF2 likely just working in part or not at all.

[RockinHarry]

20 hours ago, MikeyD said:

For a (short) while I was attempting to play by strict 'reality' rules. No moving your camera beyond your own forward line, no raising the camera above level one (except to facilitate placing movement orders). No rewinding to double-check where an attack came from. No flying about the battlefield like a bird, just naviagating by '+' jumps from unit to unit. The game suddenly became VERY challenging, even frightening. Being ground level with your troops in a patch of woods during an artillery stonking is unnerving. We don't realize how much we rely on the 'eye of God' view of the battlefield while playing.

I´d augment these with allowing units having binocs a 6x zoom (X-key) from units current position. This is where some fixed zoom level (maybe a SHIFT + X key click) would come handy.

[slippy]

Quote

For the running CMBN PBEM DAAR (Heirloom_Tomato vs. me) we´re using a particular package composed of the few mods you already know about and two further animation tweaks (idle standing upright to idle kneeling & reload at lowered stance only).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j0ouwaxisea5zdz/z_RHZ_Realism_Pack.zip?dl=0 (included are some readme files giving info in somewhat more detail)

You could try these for CMBN and CMFB, but the other games are untested, with CMBS/CMSF2 likely just working in part or not at all.

Thanks RockinHarry very kind of you mate

[Bletchley]

Hi slippy,

There are a couple of house-rules I add when playing against the AI in Quick Battle, to even the odds a bit:

1. A casualty bar to winning -

Probe: must have less than 5% DEAD to win

Attack: must have less than 7.5% DEAD to win

Assault: must have less than 10% DEAD to win

Increase time allowed to the maximum 2 hours

Forces the player to be much more careful, and more attentive to medical care, to keep those casualties down

2. Command friction:

This involves 'inhabiting' a unit during the replay phase (at ground level, locked to unit, can pan around 360, up, down and use zoom if the unit has binoculars).

In the subsequent orders phase you can zoom back out to see the whole map, but only subordinate units can recieve orders (double click on the inhabited unit to find the subordinate units).

The inhabited unit and subordinate units can only be given a MOVE order if they are in contact with a superior HQ (sight, voice or radio icon).

The MOVE order is immediate if that unit has an unbroken chain of command (all dots are green).

If one or more dot is red, indicating a break in the chain of command, the unit's move order must iclude a 1 minute 30 seconds delay.

At the end of the orders phase select another unit to inhabit (or remain in the current one) for the following replay phase.

There is then a tension between increased situational awareness (inhabit a unit close to the action) and command ability (inhabit a unit higher up the command chain, but further back)

Bletchley

 

 

[Bulletpoint]

How about this idea, to make things a bit more simple:

You can give any order to any HQ unit (flag icon) at any time.

But all subordinate units must be within voice or close visual range of their HQ to be given an order.

[Erwin]

I would prefer your idea over Iron Mode.  Interesting.

[Bletchley]

Hi Bulletpoint. That would certainly provide some 'command friction' but only at the lowest (platoon) level, and might be difficult to implement with armoured formations which do not usually have readily identifiable flagged HQ units.

The additional element of friction suggested with the 1 minute 30 second delay represents the use of runners between HQ units when other forms of communication fail.

The idea of 'inhabiting' a unit during the replay phase reduces the amount of information available to the player (FOW), and forces the player to choose between being in the thick of the action with a limited ability to appreciate and influence the bigger picture - or being further back, lacking that immediate situational awareness but having the abilty to command more subordinate units. The temptation once the shooting starts is to be at the front, where the action is, but this doesn't usually win the battle. I generally 'inhabit' the scout units to begin with and then HQ units further back once the enemy composition and locations have been identified by the scouts.

[slippy]

Hi again Gents

 

Just been going through some of the posts above and noticed a missed this quote here

Quote

8* C&C System...From either BH or the more quicker user friendly version from HT.

by JoMc67

what/where are the user friendly rules by HT please?

 

thanks again

 

slipper

[Heirloom_Tomato]

On 3/12/2019 at 5:43 PM, slippy said:

Hi again Gents

 

Just been going through some of the posts above and noticed a missed this quote here

by JoMc67

what/where are the user friendly rules by HT please?

 

thanks again

 

slipper

I will assume the HT means me, anyone else with an HT name feel free to jump in with your user friendly rules

If you are looking to add realism and want to introduce some command delays, play the game on Iron mode and use the following rules for C2 sharing. These screen shots were taken in the most up to date version of CMFI.

I setup a quick battle with D Company of Canadian infantry. Here are all three platoons marching across the battlefield with no unit selected. Notice how you as the player have no problem seeing all the units and where everyone is.

If we go in nice and close to 10th platoon and select the platoon HQ we can see the units he can see. You will also notice that since he has gone over the crest of the hill, his line of sight to D Company HQ is gone, as well since they are still moving his radio link is out. 10th Platoon has no C2 link with the rest of the Company. Any information they may have about the battlefield is then off limits to all other units in the Company. In other words, 11th and 12th Platoons will have no idea what is happening to 10th Platoon and cannot come to their rescue if they are in trouble. These Platoons will also not be able to modify their current orders based on something 10th Platoon might be able to see. Somehow 10th Platoon will have to make contact in order to share what they can see. A runner would need to be sent or the Platoon HQ will need to stop moving in order to reestablish radio contact. At the end of this turn, 10th Platoon HQ can issue orders to any of his men as they are all in contact. If any of them get out of contact, those units will be considered "lost" and somehow contact will need to be reestablished with Platoon HQ before they can given new orders. Lost units are allowed to complete the last orders given to them, ie their current movement plans and allowed to fire at will. They can also attempt to move back to the last known location of their HQ in an effort to restore C2 themselves. However any offensive moves must wait until contact is made with the Platoon HQ.

Looking behind them, 10th Platoon has an idea of where everyone was before they crossed the ridge.

But notice how one of the sections from 10th Platoon is still on the edge of the ridge? What can they see?

Why that is the 2nd section of 12th Platoon and they have a visual/audio link with them. According to my rules, it can be assumed 2nd section has all the knowledge of 10th Platoon at the end of this turn and can begin to react to any threats potentially facing them, but only 2nd section. The rest of 12th Platoon will have to wait one more turn, the time it would take 2nd section to relay this information to their Platoon HQ. So at the end of the next turn, all of 12th Platoon could break from their current plan and begin to move in support of 10th Platoon.

You will notice 12th Platoon has a visual link still with D Company. My rules require a further minute for all C2 sharing with the next level higher. So in this case, if after a second minute has passed, 12th Platoon still has contact with D Company, it can be assumed all units in contact with D Company know the situation of 10th Platoon and can begin to move in support of them. Here you can see D Company HQ and all the units it has contact with.

If C Company was also involved with this battle, and both C and D Company have radio contact with Battalion HQ, it is assumed a further minute of delay to share information between Companies.

A quick summary:

If a unit spots the enemy, they may react to what they see immediately. Any units in direct contact with them, like the visible ones shown above, will also be able to react immediately.

Any units outside of direct contact will need to reestablish contact before they can be issued new orders. If Platoons have radio contact with Company HQ, it is assumed a one minute delay to share information within the Company.

If multiple Companies are on the map, it is assumed a two minute delay to share information between Companies.

If multiple Battalions or Formations are in the same battle, it is assumed a three minute delay for sharing information between them.

The simplest way to prevent these big delays is to have units stay in close contact with each other so information sharing can be instantaneous. For example, keep 9th Platoon of C Company in contact with 10th Platoon of D Company and both Platoons in contact with a tank from the Armour formation. This will cut the delay down to one minute for all the units in C and D Company and the Armour formation.

What happens if a Platoon HQ is wiped out? In this case, the men would either stay in place until contact is made by another HQ unit or they will begin to fall back to the last known friendly locations and join up with the first unit they come into contact with.

Clear as mud?

[MOS:96B2P]

14 hours ago, Heirloom_Tomato said:

What happens if a Platoon HQ is wiped out? In this case, the men would either stay in place until contact is made by another HQ unit or they will begin to fall back to the last known friendly locations and join up with the first unit they come into contact with.

Interesting stuff.  I have many rules that are similar to yours.  Mine are a modified version of @Peregrine rules.  I keep adding to them and modifying them.  Part of the fun.  The below is my rule for a KIA CO.    

When a Commanding Officer (CO) of a HQ is KIA the new CO takes a 1:15 Pause.  Order of succession CO, XO, next highest rank. If same rank the one with the lowest squad number, example: 1^st Squad / 1^st Team.

[slippy]

14 hours ago, Heirloom_Tomato said:

 

Quote

A quick summary:

If a unit spots the enemy, they may react to what they see immediately. Any units in direct contact with them, like the visible ones shown above, will also be able to react immediately.

Any units outside of direct contact will need to reestablish contact before they can be issued new orders. If Platoons have radio contact with Company HQ, it is assumed a one minute delay to share information within the Company.

If multiple Companies are on the map, it is assumed a two minute delay to share information between Companies.

If multiple Battalions or Formations are in the same battle, it is assumed a three minute delay for sharing information between them.

The simplest way to prevent these big delays is to have units stay in close contact with each other so information sharing can be instantaneous. For example, keep 9th Platoon of C Company in contact with 10th Platoon of D Company and both Platoons in contact with a tank from the Armour formation. This will cut the delay down to one minute for all the units in C and D Company and the Armour formation.

What happens if a Platoon HQ is wiped out? In this case, the men would either stay in place until contact is made by another HQ unit or they will begin to fall back to the last known friendly locations and join up with the first unit they come into contact with.

Clear as mud? 

Thanks HT, will read it through a few times to digest it, but yes makes sense mate. Thank you