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Have to agree.....I find it very hard to persuade CM:A AI forward observers to call in anything in, unless something actually shoots at them, which is not an ideal situation from the 'sudden explody death from above' front.  :rolleyes:

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I'd love to see the simple option to add a timing to a painted AI Target.

A Beta tester recently figured out how the get AI on-map mortars to 'area target' a painted spot beyond LOS after a trigger has been activated. Its really quite amazing. My hat's off to 'em for figuring it out. Its not in any scenarios because its 'new information' that hasn't been put to use yet (and on-map AI mortars were wonky on CMSF2 release). It would probably work using on-map mortars and timed 'movement orders' too. Movement order Minute 10, 'area fire' location X, Movement order minute 13, stop area fire. It doesn't work for off-map mortars, though. It was tested.

I made heavy use of AI-directed 'area fire' timed movement orders for direct fire weapons while refurbishing the CMSF2 scenarios. That was fun to play with.

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1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

A Beta tester recently figured out how the get AI on-map mortars to 'area target' a painted spot beyond LOS after a trigger has been activated. Its really quite amazing. My hat's off to 'em for figuring it out. Its not in any scenarios because its 'new information' that hasn't been put to use yet (and on-map AI mortars were wonky on CMSF2 release). It would probably work using on-map mortars and timed 'movement orders' too. Movement order Minute 10, 'area fire' location X, Movement order minute 13, stop area fire. It doesn't work for off-map mortars, though. It was tested.

I made heavy use of AI-directed 'area fire' timed movement orders for direct fire weapons while refurbishing the CMSF2 scenarios. That was fun to play with.

One of the refurbed scenarios I did uses the mortar trigger trick - took me a while to get it to work but you're right it was a clever find by whoever discovered it.

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Off the top of my head there is a bit of jiggery pokery. Looking in the editor here is how I did it:

Had an on-map mortar as a single AI Group, placed on the map with no setup order.

Order 2 had a movement order about 1-2 action spots away (or might have been painted where the thing was sitting on the map originally) from where the mortar had been placed on the map with a 'wait for' trigger which I called 'Mortar 1'

Order 3 had a painted area about 1 action spot away from the last order location and a painted target area where I wanted the rounds to land.

That was pretty much it … I seem to recall that the mortar had to move on a trigger to make it work but I may be hazy in that recollection.

If you want the mortar to fire at a different target you have to rinse and repeat the move, trigger, target area process above.

End of the day mate, just crack UK Britain's Joy SF2 open in the editor and have a look. The group you're looking for is Red AI Group 9 in Red AI Plan 1.

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Got to play the scenario first (my golden rule).  ;)

I think I can already get the gist of how it works, but I will be looking at your scripts in the not too distant future, you can be sure of that.  B)

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Sorry forgot to add that the trigger was placed in an area just short of where I wanted the rounds to land so that by the time the mortars started firing, the triggering unit would have walked/driven into the painted target area. I set it up almost like a Decision Point (DP) to cue an action in a Target Area of Interest (TAI) in real World military planning graphics. The trigger was an AI Trigger (Enemy) in the Red Objectives part of the editor btw.

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I just now did a VERY quick mini-test. For getting the mortar to fire outside of LOS at a designated time you want to (I didn't test the trigger):

  1. Place your mortar where you want it.
  2. Give the setup order an 'Exit before...' time so the AI order will move on to the second order at the time you want it. (Exit Before 10 min for example) 
  3. Give the mortar AI a 2nd AI move order but instead of painting a movement destination you just control-paint an 'area fire' location. When the mortar AI orders hits the 'exit before' time it'll area fire on whatever location you painted, even if its outside of LOS.
  4. Give the 2nd AI order its own 'Exit before..." (Exit Before 13 min for example) so it'll move on to the next order and stop firing.

My mini test didn't need painted-on movement orders. The mortar crew could stay in place and not shift position. Mortar targeting was exact, no spotting round. But it started a little bit later than expected. I guess you need to factor in the time for the mortar crew to orient themselves, aim, and and start firing.

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I'm i bit supprised that you guys did not know about this trick. It was mentioned for the first time within days of the release of the V4 update. I don't remember by whom right now but it has been discussed in a number of threads ever since. Here's a link to one of them that i remember it having been mentioned in...This one dates almost 18 months ago...

 

This is one of the features i was hoping to see a lot of in the upcomming CMRT and CMFI modules. If that is not the case i will be a bit dissapionted...As this is a 'game changer' 

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It would be great if we could collate all these little gems scattered across the various sub-forums into a CM-wide 'Scenario Writing Hints & Tips' thread in this (General) forum area.

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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14 hours ago, RepsolCBR said:

This is one of the features i was hoping to see a lot of in the upcomming CMRT and CMFI modules. If that is not the case i will be a bit dissapionted...As this is a 'game changer'  

I'm aware of this ability, and it is indeed already being incorporated in things being made (speaking for myself).

"Withdraw" is the other new AI tool of particular interest from the 4.0 update. If you look at the ability to pair these with timing and triggers, they can improve the AI on attack and defense (and maybe even serve other uses we might think up).

"Creative Misuse" is a common tactic for dealing with the Editor, as it seems to be with lots of other people that like to mod and take things apart. Consider the "common" uses of a tool (like the AI tools), see the potential for those uses, think of the intended outcome for the use of the tool, combine with other tools (triggers, timing)- that adapts the tool to your purpose, if able. These make the Editor a bit more "able", which should hopefully translate to a more active/adaptive AI.

Edited by benpark

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Good to know these things are in...☺️

 

2 hours ago, benpark said:

"Withdraw" is the other new AI tool of particular interest from the 4.0 update. If you look at the ability to pair these with timing and triggers, they can improve the AI on attack and defense (and maybe even serve other uses we might think up).

Yes...the new editor features included in the V4 update sure improves things...

RockinHarry did some test with WITHDRAWING - forward - a while back...He used this at the start of an AI attack to get the AI troops to through smoke grenades infront of themself to get some increased cover. Followed this up by some regular assult/attack orders and got an AI attack that used smoke to cover its advance...I made some simple test with this and it seemed to work quite well but i have not really tried it in a scenario yet. A cool idea though...☺️

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