Jump to content
WriterJWA

Minefield Mayhem....

Recommended Posts

*POSSIBLE SPOILERS*


So, here we are: CMSF2, the Task Force Thunder campaign, scenario one. There is a long berm running the length of the map between the US setup area and the battlefield. The berm has ramps at intervals to allow the player to drive vehicles to the top. Toward the south end of the map there is a gap where a highway runs perpendicular to it across the map. According to the briefing and the map, there are anti-tank mines blocking the road. Makes sense.... That's a likely avenue of approach. 

Now... apparently, the backside of the berm is prohibited terrain. I can't get vehicles from the top of the berm down the backside onto the desert beyond. I also can't get the attached engineer section to mark the apparent mines in the road (presumably because I haven't actually triggered them, because why would anyone do that?). So how am I supposed to get beyond the berm? The engineers can't breach the berm with their charges, nor can they mark the minefield in the roadway. 

Please... For the love of god... Don't tell me I have to run a vehicle into the minefield to trigger the mines just so I can mark a lane with the engineers. Please don't tell me that. 

Mine City.jpg

Edited by WriterJWA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My engineers had no problems marking most of the mines within 10 minutes. Afterwards, at scenario end, I had  approximately 75% of the minefields 'marked'. The hard part is not in identifying the minefields -  it's in what you're going to do to bypass them. You have options.

Sounds like this is your first time encountering mines. Don't panic, let your engineers to their job. Then either call your 155s or pick a route through with the proper lead vehicles. Something that won't get skittish at the mere sight of an RPG...

One last hint - your infantry won't trigger AT mines.2054285375_CMShockForce22019-01-3112-46-04.thumb.jpg.79b4b185ca86a4203cf57e04f8bd254a.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Howler said:

My engineers had no problems marking most of the mines within 10 minutes. Afterwards, at scenario end, I had  approximately 75% of the minefields 'marked'. The hard part is not in identifying the minefields -  it's in what you're going to do to bypass them. You have options.

Sounds like this is your first time encountering mines. Don't panic, let your engineers to their job. Then either call your 155s or pick a route through with the proper lead vehicles. Something that won't get skittish at the mere sight of an RPG...

One last hint - your infantry won't trigger AT mines.2054285375_CMShockForce22019-01-3112-46-04.thumb.jpg.79b4b185ca86a4203cf57e04f8bd254a.jpg

So.... The engineers' option to 'Mark Mines' is dark. I've used engineers a-plenty in CMBN and CMFI with great success, but here it won't let me mark minefields, even after I sacrificed a Stryker to expose a minefield. Where are the M58 MICLIC's? Why can't I breach the berm with the engineers a la the Persian Gulf War?? 

Edited by WriterJWA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't even know there were mines (I turn off all the objectives and landmarks most of the game as I don't like all that writing in view...seems I lucked out there) , I drove right past :P  I used the ramps to position my M1s and wrecked everything in site before attempting to go through the highway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WriterJWA said:

I've used engineers a-plenty in CMBN and CMFI with great success, but here it won't let me mark minefields, even after I sacrificed a Stryker to expose a minefield.

You have to place the breach teams next to the known minefield, and then the mark mines move command will become available. 

3 hours ago, WriterJWA said:

Where are the M58 MICLIC's?

Personally I'm hoping for an engineering vehicles pack, similar to what was done for CMBN. I would be satisfied with some Abrams and T-72s with mine plows, but I would be even more happy if we got a whole bunch of engineering vehicles, such as MICLICs and the ABV to name a few. 

3 hours ago, WriterJWA said:

Why can't I breach the berm with the engineers a la the Persian Gulf War??

This is beyond the scope of CM. Even if it were done in combat, it would take a while and just isn't part of what CM simulates. If you wanted to simulate it you could by opening up the mission in the editor and making the holes in the berm yourself, to show that the engineers had been busy for a few hours and blew holes in the berm by the time your assault force got there. Something like that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forget the mines. All you need to do is drive your tanks up the berm and shoot the **** out of the enemy. Move you scouts on the berm and plaster the enemy with artillery. That is all to finish this mission. You don't even need to dismount your infantry. Not the best designed mission in the campaign I think. Unfortunately it is the very first one.

Generally don't try to disarm mine fields. Your engineers are not particular good at it. It is always better to go around minesfields instead of trying to disarm them.

Edited by RexSaur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/4/2019 at 9:21 AM, IICptMillerII said:

This is beyond the scope of CM. Even if it were done in combat, it would take a while and just isn't part of what CM simulates. If you wanted to simulate it you could by opening up the mission in the editor and making the holes in the berm yourself, to show that the engineers had been busy for a few hours and blew holes in the berm by the time your assault force got there. Something like that. 

Funny how this was major part of all the training we did in FDF Combat engineers, to get through minefields, in combat, in matter of couple of minutes. But yeah.. totally not in scope of Combat Mission.  And we did not even have any fancy vehicles to do that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, H1nd said:

Funny how this was major part of all the training we did in FDF Combat engineers, to get through minefields, in combat, in matter of couple of minutes. But yeah.. totally not in scope of Combat Mission.  And we did not even have any fancy vehicles to do that...

This game seems to have its own metric of what it considers realistic or "outside the realm of CM" that's based largely on the limitations of programming and sheer fantasy. In a separate thread there has been talk that a USMC AAV-7 shouldn't be allowed to break down masonry walls because it might allow players the option to do that whenever, or because "it's not done in combat conditions." (Real life hint: It is). In the Thunder scenario I still haven't been able to get beyond the gap in the berm without catching a mine and killing Joes. And yet despite S2 being well aware of the minefield prior to zero hour my engineers can't mark lanes because they can't actually, physically see the mines... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, WriterJWA said:

This game seems to have its own metric of what it considers realistic or "outside the realm of CM" that's based largely on the limitations of programming and sheer fantasy.

I'm curious, what game have you *ever* played that didn't have such bias?  There are limits to everything and everyone (yes, including the game designer) has an opinion. Why waste your time playing a scenario you don't enjoy. Skip it and play the next one. There's plenty of content to play through. Spare yourself the frustration.

 

43 minutes ago, WriterJWA said:

In the Thunder scenario I still haven't been able to get beyond the gap in the berm without catching a mine and killing Joes.

Your point being what exactly? Ah, yes - it must be the game... the limitations... the fantasy...

Come back to it when your more comfortable with fine movement and the use of engineers within 'the realm of CM'.

Choose another scenario and come back to this one once you're more comfortable with the mechanics and their limitations. Again, there's plenty of scenarios that are more readily approachable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, H1nd said:

Funny how this was major part of all the training we did in FDF Combat engineers, to get through minefields, in combat, in matter of couple of minutes. But yeah.. totally not in scope of Combat Mission.  And we did not even have any fancy vehicles to do that...

Funny how you completely failed to read what it was I was referring to as outside the scope of CM. I was talking about breaching a massive sand berm, NOT about breaching minefields. Breaching minefields has been in the game for years. How anyone could be so stupid to think it isn’t possible in CM is beyond me.

Not sure if this is a second language issue, a lack of daily crayon munching issue, or the irrelevance of the FDF in general. Either way, learn to read. Actually, don’t bother. After all you’ll find landmines most effectively with your legs and face. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, IICptMillerII said:

Not sure if this is a second language issue, a lack of daily crayon munching issue, or the irrelevance of the FDF in general. Either way, learn to read. Actually, don’t bother. After all you’ll find landmines most effectively with your legs and face.

Easy Tiger.....The fella's just going through 'The Mine Frustration', we all have to do it at some point.  ;)

Let's be honest. it's not one of the things that the game handles particularly well as things currently stand (I actually preferred the CMx1 system, where you could blow 'em up, or wait for ages and clear them), but a few mine-roller/mine-plough vehicles in a future Vehicle Pack will clear that right up.....Maybe Battlefront will give us more demining options in a future patch, maybe not?  Preferably not at the expense of something like persistent map damage, I would hope!  :P

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CM's mine handling is limited to marking paths for infantry to pass through. It is not exactly robust mine handling. No explosive clearing, no plows and flails in only one title. As much as hand clearing mines under fire is out of scope for CM all the other techniques listed could be added.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, IICptMillerII said:

Funny how you completely failed to read what it was I was referring to as outside the scope of CM. I was talking about breaching a massive sand berm, NOT about breaching minefields. Breaching minefields has been in the game for years. How anyone could be so stupid to think it isn’t possible in CM is beyond me.

Not sure if this is a second language issue, a lack of daily crayon munching issue, or the irrelevance of the FDF in general. Either way, learn to read. Actually, don’t bother. After all you’ll find landmines most effectively with your legs and face. 

Well somebody is a real pleasant fellow. Yes is is true that I might have missed the point a bit since yes english is indeed not my native language and also because every time there is a talk on the forum about infantry engineers breaching minefields, wich you definitely can not do in CM games, since marking is not breaching in sense of clearing a mineless lane through the damn thing, there is immediately somebody popping up with the "Its not in scope of CM something something.." like literally every freaking time. Whole discussion on whether it might be reasonable to add the ability for engineers to breach minefields is just brushed aside without any consideration if the popular perception about the issue might actually be wrong. So yeah, I might be tad bit frustrated about the whole thing.

But there is still no excuse to accept such immature and completely insulting behaviour as your reply. Is this the sort of thing we want to see here on this forum? 

Last word on the mine issue: I am actually quite optimistic that we will eventually get at least mine clearing vehicles to both modern CM titles. And that is enough for me. 

-H1nd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup... So even after I managed to sacrifice a Stryker to trigger the mines (which no on-ground commander would even remotely do) and marked them with engineer, I still lost two Strykers as I tried to slowly pass them through the gap. But effective, modern, U.S. Army engineers who are professionals at their jobs are probably too far outside the "scope of CM games." Not only do I have to sacrifice a vehicle to find the mines just to mark them... The marking is entirely arbitrary, too. I've tried to get around these mines four times without doing something "gamey" or just losing unrealistic casualties and I can't do it. I'm not trying anymore. Best of luck with this campaign. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, WriterJWA said:

So even after I managed to sacrifice a Stryker to trigger the mines

Tell me you did this after calling a barrage of 155s where the 'AT Mines' were identified on your map. I hate losing vehicles and would rather waste rounds from 155s which are too plentiful in this scenario. From memory, they take 3 mins to call and become available 10 minutes in...

Everyone else is on the bern enjoying the turkey shoot. Have the engineers go over the area where it says 'AT Mines' once the barrage is over and before sending anything through.

It's too bad you had such a difficult time with this one. Your starting infantry platoon is your base of fire (on the bern) and the follow-ons carry the assault if there's anything left.

Edited by Howler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, WriterJWA said:

Yup... So even after I managed to sacrifice a Stryker to trigger the mines (which no on-ground commander would even remotely do) and marked them with engineer, I still lost two Strykers as I tried to slowly pass them through the gap. But effective, modern, U.S. Army engineers who are professionals at their jobs are probably too far outside the "scope of CM games." Not only do I have to sacrifice a vehicle to find the mines just to mark them... The marking is entirely arbitrary, too. I've tried to get around these mines four times without doing something "gamey" or just losing unrealistic casualties and I can't do it. I'm not trying anymore. Best of luck with this campaign. 

OMG why would you run vehicles deliberately through a mine field?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After I spent most of the cover of darkness crawling around and pausing 30 seconds or more at each waypoint in the suspected minefield and finding not one at mine I finally split up my engineer team and, ridiculously, exposed them to the forward enemy positions as they walked in opposing crisscrossing patterns ("Star of David" like) before they found 1 of the many in that location, even after all that time finding and marking them some of the drivers still ran over them until I micro-marked each slow way point through the area to get them safely across.

***Spoiler Alert***

Basically, once they accessed the highway I had them straddle the divided passing markers for a safe exit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 12:00 AM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Was that minefield in the original, I don't recall it being there?

Nope, no mine fields or engineer teams either, in the Original SF1. It's probably the reason why the original SF1 campaign is called "TF Thunder" and SF2 is called "Task Force Thunder", imho, they should have given SF2s version 30 minutes to 60 minutes extra for the added frustration your engineer team gets in trying to find the AT mines and mark them, less alone, for it to be the main reason as to why your armor can't proceed in it's time sensitive and surprised border crossing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 9:19 PM, WriterJWA said:

Please... For the love of god... Don't tell me I have to run a vehicle into the minefield to trigger the mines just so I can mark a lane with the engineers. Please don't tell me that.

You don't. Just walk your engineers back and forth through the suspected minefield and they should eventually spot all the mines. Make sure to give a movement waypoint on every action spot. Once the mines are spotted, move your engineers into the spot adjacent to the mines, and the mark mines command will be active.

It usually takes a turn or two to mark mines, but realize one thing:

Marked mines are still dangerous.

 

Ignore the naysayers in the thread, it's really not all that difficult. Observe, and learn:

 

Edited by General Jack Ripper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 12:00 AM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Was that minefield in the original, I don't recall it being there?

The briefing mentioned it, but the lack of actual landmines at the time meant it was nothing but a landmark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:46 PM, WriterJWA said:

Yup... So even after I managed to sacrifice a Stryker to trigger the mines (which no on-ground commander would even remotely do) and marked them with engineer, I still lost two Strykers as I tried to slowly pass them through the gap.

Oh god, what have you wrought?

And people think I'm crazy...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×