Jump to content

(Too?) easy LOS and shooting through pine forests


Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I think it should be possible to eyeball a situation and get a pretty good result. With the pine trees, I'm forced to slowly probe around for LOS using the target tool.

Not very fun, and despite what some might think, I actually do play these games for fun :)

 

7 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

It already is. 

 

Have to agree with Rinaldi here. In my experience you can usually get a good idea of visibility just by eyeballing the terrain. It is also helpful if you feed your men carrots beforehand 🥕👀💪

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I generally feel with Bulletpoint concerning the pine trees. Currently we can only "improve" by use of adding bocage and bushes to the forest interiors (see Kaunitz "improvement suggestions" thread), as well as adding bumps to the terrrain mesh to increases density and cutting LOS/LOF. Modding also helps by making bocage look like parts of pine trees. Examples below show crushed and fallen trees in a pine forest by adding bocage objects, as well as other stuff from the flavor objects collection. While the flavors do nothing for cover and concealment actually, they improve the scenery greatly IMHO. It´s still WIP (CMBN), but will be released to public later this year. Adaption to CMFB will follow.

fmtb7t.jpg

Low bocage flavor object put at the bottom of single pine trees. I also made a custom ground tile set for pine tree forests.

iggh75.jpg

Some pine tree flavor objects with some damage from shrapnel on the bark texture. Low bocage (true terrain type, not flavor object) with leaves/branches swapped for the pine type, serve as fallen trees and branches.

11kgnzr.jpg

34y9xu8.jpg

in60km.jpg


 

Edited by RockinHarry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, RockinHarry said:

 

fmtb7t.jpg


 

I believe you also modded the actual trees to make the branches more sparse? Because in my game, the foliage is way more dense. When looking at these trees, I'm thinking obviously there will be a couple of gaps for LOS and LOF. I wouldn't trust this little forest to guard my flanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bulletpoint said:

I believe you also modded the actual trees to make the branches more sparse? Because in my game, the foliage is way more dense. When looking at these trees, I'm thinking obviously there will be a couple of gaps for LOS and LOF. I wouldn't trust this little forest to guard my flanks.

Yes I used Ramblers Trees & Bocage mod as a base.

http://cmmodsiii.greenasjade.net/?p=2316

Main purpose is war torn looks on forested battlefields, with trees loosing more and more branches & leaves from repeated shelling. Thus the default density doesn´t provide quite the desired impression. I have not tested how much of a difference it makes with regard to "see through" nature of woods, when the branches are thinned out some. Think I´d add an option with default density branches if it matters. Just as you say, I wouldn´t trust either. I´d rather depend on (true) bocage and brush added to the edges, as well as interior for the LOS effects. Scattered terrain bumps (+1 ditch lock) helps as well. So playing the stock QB maps and maps that aren´t edited that way is most the time not an option. Another issue is the trees reshuffeld within the 8x8m terrain grid, leading each time after reloading to slightly different tree positions. This could lead to a number of small surprises after setup. Yet I´d wish too for BFC adding some standard trees with branches reaching closer to the ground. Everything else is just a partly and laborous solution.

Edited by RockinHarry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RockinHarry said:

Another issue is the trees reshuffeld within the 8x8m terrain grid, leading each time after reloading to slightly different tree positions. This could lead to a number of small surprises after setup.

I think @Kaunitz once found out that the positions of the individual trees don't really matter for LOS?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
On 2/5/2019 at 4:23 PM, Bulletpoint said:

I think @Kaunitz once found out that the positions of the individual trees don't really matter for LOS?

Some insights regarding trees:

Note that I was unaware of this very enlighting piece of information provided by Vanir Ausf B back then, but reading through my tests and watching my videos, I'm not really sure whether the observed behaviour can be explained by it: 

 

Edited by Kaunitz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

You would think the gunner would notice that tree right in front of him and not hit it.

That would be a (real-world) issue with the parallax difference between the gun tube and the gunner's sight. In tight circumstances like in a stand of trees the commander (or whomever) may be compelled to open the breech and peer down the gun tube to confirm there's daylight at the other end. Stugs and Jpz IVs in particular had this problem. The roof-mounted gunners sight might see a clear view of the target while the low-mounted gun is pointing into intervening terrain. I read that Germans considered StuG and Jpz IV combat ineffective in Normandy terrain because of that.

If you look at titles like CMBS the tree complaints usually go in the opposite direction, that foliage is too effective at blocking LOF. Those darned deciduous trees! :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...