Red Thunder bugs

[Falaise]

On 1/26/2019 at 1:29 PM, CMFDR said:

Thanks for your time and dedication Falaise.

Oh, you're welcome

de rien,C'est surtout Frenchy qu'il faut remercier...

[CMFDR]

 décidément... je n'avais pas les yeux en face des trous!

Thank you @Frenchy56

[Frenchy56]

Soviet rifle platoon leaders (which are embedded inside the 1st rifle squad) have the wrong uniform. They show Private ranks.

This kind of thing shows up as well for a few HQ units like the ATR platoon or Machine gun platoon.

Then again, you can see the number of SVT's reach a number that's in fact closer to pre-war numbers (8 SVT's per platoon, when DMS pointed out 2 would be a reasonable number for this timeline).

 

I've also noted that platoons are commanded by Captains and companies by Majors according to the UI, and I have never seen any Soviet officer under the rank of Captain in this game.

I think this has something to do with the UI being incorrect (I've tested it with and without Juju's UI mod, and the ranks are the same).

The UI's senior officer ranks, in other words over Captain, are also incorrect (the stars are silver when they should be gold).

Edited January 28, 2019 by Frenchy56

[Frenchy56]

2 hours ago, Frenchy56 said:

Soviet rifle platoon leaders (which are embedded inside the 1st rifle squad) have the wrong uniform. They show Private ranks.

Note: this also affects the earlier 1943 rifle battalion organization, where rifle platoon leaders have their HQ unit.

Sapper battalions and AA batteries seems to have this problem as well.

 

Note 2: SMG companies are unaffected, I think it's safe to assume that they're the only ones who aren't affected by this problem after further checking in the scenario editor.

I don't think I've seen any Junior Sergeants either.

 

So, to sum it up, platoon and company leaders' ranks are too high, all officer ranks under Captain are unused, icons for ranks over Captain are incorrect, Junior Sergeants nowhere to be seen (except probably tank crews), platoon leader's 3d model is incorrect in most cases.

 

I've made some fixes for the ranks myself with existing mods, if you're interested, give me a shout.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Frenchy56

[Bulletpoint]

On 1/26/2019 at 12:33 PM, Frenchy56 said:

Pz IV G (late) and (latest) commander sticks the entire bust out of his cupola. It's inconsistent with every other Pz IV's behavior.

 

I already reported this in 2017:

 

 

[Frenchy56]

1 hour ago, Bulletpoint said:

 

I already reported this in 2017:

 

 

Well, let's hope Battlefront saw that. We gave it another chance to see it here.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Frenchy56

[A Canadian Cat]

2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I already reported this in 2017:

I can confirm it has been reported (a couple of months prior to the first report here). I added a note that it appears in CMRT as well.

[Mudhugger]

Regarding the Red Army's uniforms:

It is correct that the Rifle and Motor Rifle Platoon leaders are not using a Jr. Officer's uniform, as pointed out by Frenchy56. Along with some other platoon leaders. And as he said the SubMg Companies are using them. Hope Battlefront can go through these and fix.

The officers uniforms are a little mixed up I feel, as the Lieutenant is in the mid-officers slot. And no Kapitan  is even made, so that is why you don't see him. These can be modded and changed to my liking however. If they can correct the Platoon leaders slot. The NCO uniforms seem right but there is no Jr. Sergeant made so that is why he doesn't show. Only Sr. Sergeant and Starshina are depicted.  I modded in my own NCO uniforms to include all ranks and even added a couple of Corporals in the basic uniforms.

One question I have always had, is why there is not more officers in the Company HQ's  and more NCO's in the Platoon HQ's. I can't find an example of rank in a Red Army Company HQ but I doubt it is one Major surrounded by Privates. I have seen this in the German Company as well but maybe they were not as flush with officers as the Reds.

Thanks, hope you take a look at this omission (bug).

[DMS]

10 hours ago, Mudhugger said:

One question I have always had, is why there is not more officers in the Company HQ's  and more NCO's in the Platoon HQ's. I can't find an example of rank in a Red Army Company HQ but I doubt it is one Major surrounded by Privates. I have seen this in the German Company as well but maybe they were not as flush with officers as the Reds.

That's right, in company HQ must be assistant (since 1943) and politruk - "political leader". Or commissar, as Germans called them (really commissar was in battalion HQ). He could go to platoons to encourage soldiers. Company leader should be captain in the best case or even senior lieutenant or lieutenant. 

And in squad must be assistant - junior sergeant, machinegunner. Probably they were not well-trained NCOs like in Wehmacht of 1941, but still they were in TO&E. 

[Frenchy56]

17 hours ago, Mudhugger said:

Regarding the Red Army's uniforms:

It is correct that the Rifle and Motor Rifle Platoon leaders are not using a Jr. Officer's uniform, as pointed out by Frenchy56. Along with some other platoon leaders. And as he said the SubMg Companies are using them. Hope Battlefront can go through these and fix.

The officers uniforms are a little mixed up I feel, as the Lieutenant is in the mid-officers slot. And no Kapitan  is even made, so that is why you don't see him. These can be modded and changed to my liking however. If they can correct the Platoon leaders slot. The NCO uniforms seem right but there is no Jr. Sergeant made so that is why he doesn't show. Only Sr. Sergeant and Starshina are depicted.  I modded in my own NCO uniforms to include all ranks and even added a couple of Corporals in the basic uniforms.

One question I have always had, is why there is not more officers in the Company HQ's  and more NCO's in the Platoon HQ's. I can't find an example of rank in a Red Army Company HQ but I doubt it is one Major surrounded by Privates. I have seen this in the German Company as well but maybe they were not as flush with officers as the Reds.

Thanks, hope you take a look at this omission (bug).

It might be a bit confusing, but I'm talking about the ranks displayed in the UI, thus the actual rank of the soldiers. I have not seen a Junior Sergeant in-game yet even though the files for the rank are there, and the actual rank of platoon leaders or equivalent does not change from Captain, the actual rank of company leaders does not change from Major, and the actual rank of battalion leaders doesn't not change from Lt. Colonel.

Now, the 3D models, yes, mid-officers are Lieutenants for some reason. I'm using Vein's mods, which corrected a few things but was still incorrect, so I modified it so platoon leaders are only 2nd Lieutenants, company leaders are Captains and battalion leaders are Majors. I changed the UI ranks (which are also incorrect for the senior officer ranks: the stars should be gold like all the others) accordingly.

I've also noticed Praporschik ranks even though they didn't even exist during WW2.

This seems like it was a part that was glossed over before release.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Frenchy56

[Frenchy56]

1 hour ago, Frenchy56 said:

I've also noticed Praporschik ranks even though they didn't even exist during WW2.

It was in the game files, by the way. Not in-game.

[John Kettler]

Speaking of the ZIS-3 gun shield angle issue, know of no ATG with a variable angle shield, but the Soviet antitank gunners on the 45 mm ATGs could and did remove the shield altogether in order to reduce the vertical profile as much as possible to aid gun concealment. If memory serves, they might also remove the wheels, too. These things are described  in Artem Drabkin's Panzer Killers, in the section on the 45 mm Destroyer units. Would further observe that the relevant portion of the book makes clear that the guns go into position at night, are camouflaged, then fight the entire antitank battle without ever displacing. The dray horse is nearby, in cover, but the gun stays until the action is concluded. Then and only then might it swap firing positions by hand or be towed elsewhere. 

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited February 24, 2019 by John Kettler

[JoMac]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 1:24 PM, Frenchy56 said:

It was in the game files, by the way. Not in-game.

Yeah, I think it's because CMRT & Black Sea share many of the Game Files, however, only the proper ones will be used for that particular Game...You might notice this if you install CMRT incorrectly (corrupted), and end-up having your PPSH's in the UI showing AK-74/AKM instead.

[Frenchy56]

2 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

Yeah, I think it's because CMRT & Black Sea share many of the Game Files, however, only the proper ones will be used for that particular Game...You might notice this if you install CMRT incorrectly (corrupted), and end-up having your PPSH's in the UI showing AK-74/AKM instead.

Neat, I thought it might have been that as well.

[Frenchy56]

7 hours ago, John Kettler said:

Speaking of the ZIS-3 gun shield angle issue, know of no ATG with a variable angle shield, but the Soviet antitank gunners on the 45 mm ATGs could and did remove the shield altogether in order to reduce the vertical profile as much as possible to aid gun concealment. If memory serves, they might also remove the wheels, too. These things are described  in Artem Drabkin's Panzer Killers, in the section on the 45 mm Destroyer units. Would further observe that the relevant portion of the book makes clear that the guns go into position at night, are camouflaged, then fight the entire antitank battle without ever displacing. The dray horse is nearby, in cover, but the gun stays until the action is concluded. Then and only then might it swap firing positions by hand or be towed elsewhere. 

Regards,

John Kettler

The top part of the 53-K's gun shield could be lowered as well. It could easily be done in combat.

 

AT guns in this game definitely need an overhaul. They need to be treated like vehicles which can be bailed out of, because once the crew abandons it, it becomes absolutely useless.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Frenchy56

[JoMac]

7 hours ago, Frenchy56 said:

The top part of the 53-K's gun shield could be lowered as well. It could easily be done in combat.

 

AT guns in this game definitely need an overhaul. They need to be treated like vehicles which can be bailed out of, because once the crew abandons it, it becomes absolutely useless.

Yeah, it would be nice to have all Field Pieces (AA, AT, Mortars) act like Vehicle Crews (Bail out-Re-Crew).

Many have said it's a Game Limitation/inability to code properly, however, BF,  gave an explanation and just said "If a Unit abandons a Field Piece it would normally spike the guns" (something like that).

[John Kettler]

Frenchy56,

Had forgotten the fold down feature, but I see it's also got a dropdown armor plate that goes between the wheels.

JoMc67,

If you read the accounts of having to leave the guns, the Russian crews would take the sights with them and hide the firing mechanism somewhere nearby the gun. Allies did much the same, from what I've read. Drabkin's book was clear that going back to get the firing mechanism was essential after action, else the Special Section might well charge sabotage! What the current engine doesn't permit is the stationing of the crew in shelter near the gun during artillery fire, then emerging to crew the guns, whose delicate sights they've had with them. Have several times also described  Russian practice of having only one man on a ATG at a time, after early war wholesale losses of trained crews, but while having plenty of guns, forced a fundamental change. The Germans did the same sort of thing when it came to sheltering a crew. The dashing of gun crews to man the guns after the enemy's barrage is shown in this clip from Brigada Tankova, but not installing the sights. The same situation obtains for things like HMGs. Allied practices weren't all that different in terms of disabling a weapon, but it's not the same as spiking an old muzzle loading cannon. There, a spike could take hours to drill out.
 

Regards,

John Kettler



 

Edited February 24, 2019 by John Kettler

[Frenchy56]

Yeah, BF's words seem more like an excuse than an explanation.

Hopefully an overhaul will be a part of the plans, if it isn't already.

 

I forgot about the bottom plate on the gun, woops.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Frenchy56

[John Kettler]

Frenchy56,

Thinking about it now, I know that plate was discussed in describing the 45 mm ATGs, but I picked up on it here based on the similarity to the one the PaK40 has.

As for the other, strange and mysterious are the ways of the Brain in a Jar™.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Frenchy56]

On 1/28/2019 at 2:09 PM, Frenchy56 said:

Soviet rifle platoon leaders have the wrong uniform. They show Private ranks.

This kind of thing shows up as well for a few HQ units like the ATR platoon or Machine gun platoon.

I've also noted that platoons are commanded by Captains and companies by Majors according to the UI, and I have never seen any Soviet officer under the rank of Captain in this game.

I think this has something to do with the UI being incorrect (I've tested it with and without Juju's UI mod, and the ranks are the same).

The UI's senior officer ranks, in other words over Captain, are also incorrect (the stars are silver when they should be gold).

@BFCElvis

 

Just asking, but you're aware of this problem, right? It seems to have been here for a while.

Hopefully it will be fixed with the new module. At least the officer 3D models since the UI ranks can just be modded away.

Note that this 3D model assignment problem affects quite a few of the most common formations, but not all of them. At least cavalry formations are not affected.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Frenchy56

[waffelmann]

I don't know, if this was reported or if this is inentionally, but:

 

The tank-commander of the panzer IV g (letzte) ((last?)) stands very high out of his cupolar (more than in other panzer IVs)

[waffelmann]

Uhh....I see this was reported in 2019 and is known...than forget it!

[Vacillator]

I don't really care, but in the interests of reporting oddities (maybe old ones)...

The feet of the two 'spare' rear-facing crewmen in the quad 20mm flakvierling disappear through the deck of the vehicle.

The Hetzer shown frequently on the load screen has a protruding third roadwheel which sticks well out from the others and overlaps the track guide horns.  In-game it doesn't look so bad but there's still a hint.

Do either of these spoil the game?  Obviously not.

[Vacillator]

Hang on. Now that I've moved the flakvierling up to the front they are kneeling, with no disappearing feet?  Okay .

[waffelmann]

So, not that someone says, that nobody said what:

The left ammo pouches of the troopers with the sturmgewehr are too deep in the body: