Formation Cohesion and spaghettification problems

[Ch53dVet]

I don't know if this is one of the problems already considered for the next engine patch, or not, but;

I have been experiencing a  lot of "fire-team's" within  single squad's  becoming, severely,  spaghettified after traveling long distances, and/or, experiencing the different levels of fatigue, and/or, passing through hex's with different movement costs. Once, they've reached their destination they can be many hexes apart w/o making an effort to link up with the rest of the squad.

 I once had a 2 man HQ unit travel through a "Wadi" where  1 of them stayed in the "Wadi" (of course it was the senior leader) the other went to the  objective waypoint, once, he got there he couldn't call in fire support because, (I'm assuming here) the leader, in the "Wadi",  had the binoculars, the radio, and no direct line of sight to the target.

[Hapless]

How far apart do you place your order waypoints?

The pixeltruppen will do a quick re-org at each waypoint: they stop, wait for everyone to catch up and then move on to the next one. The further away your waypoints are, the more thinking the TacAi has to do in between, the more strung out your troops will get and the more likely something will go wrong. For infantry, its always worth putting down a series of shorter waypoints instead of one long one.

Of course sometimes they get confused anyway, but lots of little orders goes a long way to mitigating that.

[Blazing 88's]

Fyi, not sure it will help you out, but some good info none the less...  Giving infantry units a pause order at the last waypoint keeps them on the spotting routine with their heads up, otherwise, they hit the deck and don't spot /see as much.

Edited January 19, 2019 by Blazing 88's

[sburke]

29 minutes ago, Ch53dVet said:

I don't know if this is one of the problems already considered for the next engine patch, or not, but;

I have been experiencing a  lot of "fire-team's" within  single squad's  becoming, severely,  spaghettified after traveling long distances, and/or, experiencing the different levels of fatigue, and/or, passing through hex's with different movement costs. Once, they've reached their destination they can be many hexes apart w/o making an effort to link up with the rest of the squad.

 I once had a 2 man HQ unit travel through a "Wadi" where  1 of them stayed in the "Wadi" (of course it was the senior leader) the other went to the  objective waypoint, once, he got there he couldn't call in fire support because, (I'm assuming here) the leader, in the "Wadi",  had the binoculars, the radio, and no direct line of sight to the target.

with no save there is nothing to present to BF for checking behavior.  When you see it save it if possible.

[Howler]

The pathfinding can be a little gnarly at times. Along with the posts above, I would add - don't force the AI to route around obstructions and instead plot waypoints around any. This may require more 'micro' handling than some would like but, it has lowered my blood pressure during play backs...

[Chops]

4 hours ago, sburke said:

with no save there is nothing to present to BF for checking behavior.  When you see it save it if possible.

Why do you need a saved game?  This behavior was introduced after the Engine 4.0 upgrade was released.  I remember there was a lot of discussion about it at the time, and I even remember uploading a saved game back then.  I think the Engine 4.0 upgrade was released around December 2016.

I thought that this would be one of the bugs fixed in the Engine 4.0 patch.

[sburke]

7 minutes ago, Chops said:

Why do you need a saved game?  This behavior was introduced after the Engine 4.0 upgrade was released.  I remember there was a lot of discussion about it at the time, and I even remember uploading a saved game back then.  I think the Engine 4.0 upgrade was released around December 2016.

I thought that this would be one of the bugs fixed in the Engine 4.0 patch.

you are making assumptions that we are all discussing the same issue and I can tell you right now if I can not provide a save with the behavior showing it - this will absolutely never be addressed in a patch.  Claims of behavior are not the same as proofs of behavior.  I personally am not seeing this behavior.  That could simply be a difference in how I maneuver.  Therefore the player interaction that might reveal the behavior is absolutely needed.  No matter how much it is discussed here and how many people might agree with you - no save, no patch.  That isn't my call, but rather what I know will be accepted for me to enter it as a ticket.

Considering it is claimed to be very common, that should be a simple item to provide right?

Edited January 19, 2019 by sburke

[Chops]

Here is the link to the original thread about this bug;  read down a few posts in the thread  (December 2016) -

 

I actually sent a saved game to you sburke at the time.  

[sburke]

21 minutes ago, Chops said:

Here is the link to the original thread about this bug;  read down a few posts in the thread  (December 2016) -

 

I actually sent a saved game to you sburke at the time.  

yep and in all that thread you can see the number of saves we got was pitifully few.  The problem with AI pathing it is a complex item that may have multiple influences.  The fewer saves the fewer instances we can examine for causes.  AI pathing is an issue that has been submitted in multiple tickets.  Whether what gets fixed in any of those matches the specific cause in anyone else's case is another issue.  I have run across pathing issues since CMBN 1.0.  I think I may even have brought it up on that thread where I was playing a pbem on CW The Mace and one of my guys ended up underwater in a corner of the map by itself.  It is not a 4.0 issue though 4.0 could possibly have made it worse by soldier spacing.  But again, the more saves we have the better off we are.  I don't understand why that seems to be a recurring issue on these boards as if somehow we are asking for money or something.  I swear I go through this all day at work in IT I don't want to go through it here.  Gimme saves or leave it go.  simple as that.  The more saves the better the odds the issue will get corrected.

Work with me people! 

 

BTW thanks for sharing the link, it is helpful to have the reference point

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by sburke

[Ch53dVet]

On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 1:31 PM, sburke said:

with no save there is nothing to present to BF for checking behavior.  When you see it save it if possible.

No saves atm, the scenario where the 2 man HQ team was severely spaghettified and unable to rejoin itself was the single scenario called "USMC: Streets of Hamas."

Anybody who gives this a try will see the limitations of waypoint placing after the setup phase.

My starting game I placed 1 tank on the highest point, left side of setup area, where I could, barely, see and target the rooftops of hidden buildings behind the dual 15' concrete walls, that run the length of the "Wadi" (MAP) only passible by the concrete bridge, choke point, leading into the town. By accident the tank blew a hole in the wall leading into the "Wadi", it might as well have been a hole leading into a black hole, any squads I sent in there had trouble moving across the "Wadi" and everyone of them turned into "Stretch Armstrong" figurines, that's where the HQ unit (1st Platoon HQ) suffered the most as far as distance between each other.

I'll try it again and see what I can do as far as showing what I'm experiencing.