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Chops

Has the Engine 4.0 Patch been released?

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I recently purchased and installed CMSF2 v2.01, and have not found any documents in the installation directory that refer to the Engine 4.0 long-awaited patch, or for that matter any information about what is included in the v2.01 patch.

The installation directory does contain the Engine 4.0 manual, however it is not dated, and it looks to be the original Engine 4.0 manual.

I scanned the Forums but did not find much information on a 4.0 patch.  One thread in the General Forum states that the Engine 4.0 patch will be released after CMSF2.  Was the Engine 4.0 patch included in CMSF2?  If so, is there any documentation describing what was changed?

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Engine 4.0 is the latest.

Unfortunately, in the WW2 titles it introduced some issues around artillery and retreat behavior that seem unrealistic and unplayable.  (For example, even crack and elite units in cover will stand up and retreat under artillery fire.)

When people talk about the upcoming "4.0 patch," they're talking about a patch that will correct these issues in games already updated to the 4.0 engine.  So far, only CMSF2 is at that point.

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CMSF2 at it's initial release included already what is going into the 4.0 patch for other games. The CMSF2 patch was for specific issue with CMSF2 itself.  It doesn't appear in the manual because it is a patch, nothing in the manual is going to change.  The rest of the games are going through testing to make sure the patch doesn't break anything in them and BF will post as that progresses.  I think the patch thread has a comment from him from just the other day.

 

what Holman said :D 

Edited by sburke

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Lots of nomenclature to unpack

  • CMx2 is the overall engine designation (ancient games like CM:Beyond Overlord are CMx1).
  • Of the CMx2 family the most recent common game engine across the titles is Engine 4 (earlier iterations were 1, 2, and 3). CMSF1 and CM:Afghanistan are not considered active titles so haven't been kept current.
  • Looking at individual titles, in the lower right you see a number representing which patch update is installed. Most titles say 'v2', CMSF2 currently says 'v2.1'. CMBN is the oldest of the current  titles with most patches & upgrades to count so it says 'v4', but its to the same standard as the others.

The v2.1 patches for the other titles are on the near horizon. CMBN will of course be called v4.1. Same patch, different name.

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1 hour ago, Ridaz said:

same questions should I hold off buying CMBN until they fix this bug? 

I have bought CMBN last November knowing perfectly of this problem. But, so far, I did not face it. There are plenty of tactical situations to have fun with without seeing this problem.

If you are interested by Normandy 1944, do not hesitate.

On a side note, if you wait for any software to be bug free, you will stop to buy anything.

Cheers

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34 minutes ago, ncc1701e said:

I have bought CMBN last November knowing perfectly of this problem. But, so far, I did not face it. There are plenty of tactical situations to have fun with without seeing this problem.

If you are interested by Normandy 1944, do not hesitate.

On a side note, if you wait for any software to be bug free, you will stop to buy anything.

Cheers

ofc I am not waiting for a bug free game but this bug does seem to be pretty game breaking and have been reported by alot of ppl. So i wanted to make sure that i won't affect the majority of my gameplay too much especially if I am tarting a campaign 

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I don't know exactly about CMBN campaigns, since I haven't played through them, but it depends on whether there's a combination of lots of fortifications on one side, and lots of off-map artillery on the other. Therefore, generally any campaign that involves you making lots of set-piece attacks will be much easier. The Troina Campaign in Fortress Italy, for example, is much easier with the bug because several of the battles are big US attacks. The Germans will get out of their trenches and run around when you shell them with your copious artillery. The first battle in the Soviet campaign of Red Thunder is similar. A human defender can mitigate the effect by using "Pause" commands, but the AI can't do that--and that's the only opponent you can have in campaigns. On the other hand, the effect is much less noticeable when there isn't much artillery, or there aren't many fortifications. There are plenty of scenarios like this, where the bug would have almost no effect.

 

 

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Thanks guys -

1.  Is there any supporting documentation that describes exactly what was changed in the Engine 4.0 patch for CMSF2?  When a patch is released it is common practice to include documentation describing what was included in the patch.  So  I would simply like to know specifically what was changed, as it took over a year for this patch to be released.

My understanding is that in the original Engine 4.0 update, the behavior of troops under High Explosive (HE) fire was changed, in order to make their behavior more realistic.  However, it actually caused them to leave good cover, and run into the open.  So, was their behavior changed back to what it was originally in the Engine 4.0 update, or were additional changes made in the new Engine 4.0 patch?

2.  Additionally, where is the documentation for the CMSF2 v2.01 patch?  As I mentioned previously,  no file was included with the CMSF2 installation.

 

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1 hour ago, General Liederkranz said:

I don't know exactly about CMBN campaigns, since I haven't played through them, but it depends on whether there's a combination of lots of fortifications on one side, and lots of off-map artillery on the other. Therefore, generally any campaign that involves you making lots of set-piece attacks will be much easier. The Troina Campaign in Fortress Italy, for example, is much easier with the bug because several of the battles are big US attacks. The Germans will get out of their trenches and run around when you shell them with your copious artillery. The first battle in the Soviet campaign of Red Thunder is similar. A human defender can mitigate the effect by using "Pause" commands, but the AI can't do that--and that's the only opponent you can have in campaigns. On the other hand, the effect is much less noticeable when there isn't much artillery, or there aren't many fortifications. There are plenty of scenarios like this, where the bug would have almost no effect.

 

 

It's very evident in CMBN too.  The first scenario I played with the 4.0 engine was a CMBN one and that bug was noticeable almost immediately.  I ordered an harassment artillery barrage on a group of buildings which I suspected harbored hidden German forces.  As my forces neared those buildings, I came across German teams just sitting in the open.  (They had fled the buildings for the "safety" of open terrain.)  Needless to say, it made things easier for my attacking troops.  And I played that scenario in January 2017!

Almost as insidious is that the 4.0 engine caused the Bren/BAR (and I believe the Breda as well) to be reduced to single shot weapons when fired past a certain range.  This really limits their effectiveness as automatic weapons.  It especially hurts the already anemic firepower of the Commonwealth forces.

Some people claim the above make these games "unplayable."  I don't entirely agree.  While I have avoided playing Commonwealth scenarios/campaigns due to the issue with the Bren gun, I have continued to play CMx2 4.0.  It's still a great game, but I've played mostly CMRT because it doesn't have the Bren/BAR issue.  However, it has been REALLY disappointing that BF allowed these issues to exist as long as they have.  Two years!  Yes, they're not "game-killing" bugs like that saved-game crash that was introduced by a CMRT patch which BF quickly fixed within a week or two, but they do make the CMx2 gaming experience feel less than optimal. 

I keep checking these forums daily hoping to see the announcement of the patches' release.  Hopefully, it'll be soon.

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2 hours ago, Chops said:

Thanks guys -

1.  Is there any supporting documentation that describes exactly what was changed in the Engine 4.0 patch for CMSF2?  When a patch is released it is common practice to include documentation describing what was included in the patch.  So  I would simply like to know specifically what was changed, as it took over a year for this patch to be released.

My understanding is that in the original Engine 4.0 update, the behavior of troops under High Explosive (HE) fire was changed, in order to make their behavior more realistic.  However, it actually caused them to leave good cover, and run into the open.  So, was their behavior changed back to what it was originally in the Engine 4.0 update, or were additional changes made in the new Engine 4.0 patch?

2.  Additionally, where is the documentation for the CMSF2 v2.01 patch?  As I mentioned previously,  no file was included with the CMSF2 installation.

 

The patches in the past have always come with release notes in a README.txt file. 

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@Chops CMSF 2's original release isn't a patch so I doubt there's going to be anything that says what has been fixed. Information on the CMSF2 v2.01 patch was posted by Steve on the CMSF 2 patch thread ...

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 11:25 PM, Battlefront.com said:

We are happy to say that v2.01 is up and ready for you.  If you've got a full installation already on your harddrive, head on over to the Patches page to check out the links:

https://www.battlefront.com/patches

If you haven't already downloaded the updated Semper Fi campaign it is included with the v2.01 patch.  The primary fix included is NATO dependent vehicles are now stripped out, making it playable for people who do not have the NATO Module.  Note that the stand alone link for the campaign is exactly the same file.  As other campaigns are updated they will go into that spot separate from the v2.01 patch.  Note that we're going to update the Semper Fi campaign a second time very soon as we found a couple of other issues that need to be cleaned up.

The Full installers for all new and old purchases have been updated to v2.01 as well.  Which means if you download a Full installer from this point on you don't need the v2.01 patch.

Here is what v2.01 includes:

Enjoy!

Steve

********************************
v2.01 PATCH NOTES
********************************

CAMPAIGNS AND SCENARIOS
- The Semper Fi Syria campaign now only requires the USMC Module.

TO&E
- Various minor adjustments.
- G-36 rifles removed from some Dutch vehicle crews.
- Stingers and Stinger teams removed from British Army.

QUICK BATTLES
- Numerous adjustments to normalize equipment available to the branches of different nations. For example, tanks were removed from service Infantry branches, and added tanks to service armored/mech infantry branches.
- Unconventional Infantry now have access to technicals.
- Several Quick Battle maps were updated.

BUG FIXES
- All on-map mortars can now be properly used in indirect fire missions.
- Spies are once again stealthy, based on Civilian Density.
- Equipment adjustments to Marine, Dutch, and German soldier models.
- Many minor art fixes.
- Fixes to misplaced crewmembers.
- Fixes for incorrectly assigned floating icons.
- Linear assembly tool now works properly with ditches.
- When opening a map from CMSF1 in CMSF2, ditches will no longer convert to wire fences.
- Various crash and hang fixes.

MISC
-Upated base game manual PDF, with a fortifications chapter that explains use of IEDs.

 

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7 hours ago, Chops said:

Thanks guys -

1.  Is there any supporting documentation that describes exactly what was changed in the Engine 4.0 patch for CMSF2?  When a patch is released it is common practice to include documentation describing what was included in the patch.  So  I would simply like to know specifically what was changed, as it took over a year for this patch to be released.

My understanding is that in the original Engine 4.0 update, the behavior of troops under High Explosive (HE) fire was changed, in order to make their behavior more realistic.  However, it actually caused them to leave good cover, and run into the open.  So, was their behavior changed back to what it was originally in the Engine 4.0 update, or were additional changes made in the new Engine 4.0 patch?

2.  Additionally, where is the documentation for the CMSF2 v2.01 patch?  As I mentioned previously,  no file was included with the CMSF2 installation.

 

Yes it is common practice to provide documentation.  It is common for it to be in a read me file included in the patch that you can find in your main directory. 

We have at work what we call the 5 minute rule.  Why bother looking myself when it only takes me 5 minutes to ask you. Take the 5 minutes instead and look in your installation directory ;) 

edit before anyone gets upset that is a joke. Couldn’t help it

Edited by sburke

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4 hours ago, Myles Keogh said:

Almost as insidious is that the 4.0 engine caused the Bren/BAR (and I believe the Breda as well) to be reduced to single shot weapons when fired past a certain range.  This really limits their effectiveness as automatic weapons.  It especially hurts the already anemic firepower of the Commonwealth forces.

This drives me crazy too, so I now only play the Commonwealth on v3.0. But then I miss the better infantry spacing and recombining squads and corner peeking from v4. So I also end up mostly playing CMRT. It helps too that attacking Russians tend not to have much off-map artillery.

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1 hour ago, Ridaz said:

Looks like I'll just hold off from buying CMBN until they fix these issues.

why?  You can play scenarios for sure that are not impacted.  Then once the patch is out (shortly) you move on to other stuff.  It is not the all encompassing game killer you might be led to believe from some comments...that is assuming you have an issue at all which some players don't.  There is some subjectivity to the discussion.

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13 hours ago, Ridaz said:

Looks like I'll just hold off from buying CMBN until they fix these issues.

To add to this, I agree with completely with sburke.  Others' descriptions of "game breaking" IMO are a bit of hyperbole. It by no means makes every scenario and campaign unplayable. Far from it. There is a ton of great content, especially if you go for the bundle with CW and MG. That being said, as Steve said, the patch will be out after SF2 and SF2 is now out, so you shouldn't have long to wait if you decide to wait it out, (assuming testing the patch goes ok).

HOWEVER, I would not expect that a patch will magically make all soldiers in all circumstances stand and fight to the death inside a building or trench line, or even prevent every instance of poor decision making. It should help. But much like real combat, behavior under fire can be unpredictable. It should however, help with troops in good cover breaking and running amok out in the open.

As an example, I'm currently playing the "Road to Nijmegan" campaign again in BN and having a great time. My paratroopers are behaving rationally, and I haven't seen any suicidal behavior from them. They've at times been pinned down. One squad broke and ran back 100yds, but they did happen across a MG34 in cover that opened fire at close range. Discretion is the better part of valor. The described behavior I would classify as a sometime annoyance, rather than "game-breaking."  It doesn't bother me much and I haven't even run across it that often. 

Dave

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2 hours ago, Ultradave said:

To add to this, I agree with completely with sburke.  Others' descriptions of "game breaking" IMO are a bit of hyperbole. It by no means makes every scenario and campaign unplayable. Far from it. There is a ton of great content, especially if you go for the bundle with CW and MG. That being said, as Steve said, the patch will be out after SF2 and SF2 is now out, so you shouldn't have long to wait if you decide to wait it out, (assuming testing the patch goes ok).

HOWEVER, I would not expect that a patch will magically make all soldiers in all circumstances stand and fight to the death inside a building or trench line, or even prevent every instance of poor decision making. It should help. But much like real combat, behavior under fire can be unpredictable. It should however, help with troops in good cover breaking and running amok out in the open.

As an example, I'm currently playing the "Road to Nijmegan" campaign again in BN and having a great time. My paratroopers are behaving rationally, and I haven't seen any suicidal behavior from them. They've at times been pinned down. One squad broke and ran back 100yds, but they did happen across a MG34 in cover that opened fire at close range. Discretion is the better part of valor. The described behavior I would classify as a sometime annoyance, rather than "game-breaking."  It doesn't bother me much and I haven't even run across it that often. 

Dave

Oh I see, what about other version of WW2 like FI and RT or FB are those affected by this bug. Also I read somewhere that the CMBN mission are not updated to 4.0 whcih caused some imba gameplay. 

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7 minutes ago, Ridaz said:

Oh I see, what about other version of WW2 like FI and RT or FB are those affected by this bug. Also I read somewhere that the CMBN mission are not updated to 4.0 whcih caused some imba gameplay. 

CMBN is engine 4. I just picked an example that I'm right now currently playing. My experience has been similar with FI, and FB. I haven't really played RT in a while, but I don't expect it would be any different. They are all engine 4

I'm just giving my opinion in reaction to those who state that it's a "game-breaking" issue. I don't believe it is, and I've had loads of satisfaction with all the titles. Anyone is free to disagree.

Edited by Ultradave

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Buy it now or buy it later. The v201 patch will be an easy free download. What's being complained about isn't a 'bug', anyway. Its a behavior that some players object to. Before the behavior change was made to the v20 patch players had been complaining that their troops made no attempt to save themselves when artillery started falling.

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In all honesty, I have played all the CMX2 titles except CM Afganistan, and I have not encountered anything that I would consider "game-breaking" or "immersion destroying." Maybe they have occurred and I just never saw them because I'm not a "nit-picker," and I was just enjoying playing the games. If it were me, I'd buy it, but if you want to believe comments of "game-breaking" bugs by a small group of commenters who tend to pick apart every release, then that's your choice.

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25 minutes ago, Ridaz said:

Also I read somewhere that the CMBN mission are not updated to 4.0 whcih caused some imba gameplay. 

That is true.  And it isn't just about 4.0.  There have been a lot of tweaks in the CM engine since CMBN came out.  Scenarios created in 1.0 were not tested with changes that followed and the same occurs in every release.  How much it may or may not affect a scenario is variable depending on the design of the scenario itself.  Having participated in the lift effort for CMSF scenarios there is simply no way scenarios will get altered as the game is patched etc.  It is an enormous amount of effort for in the end little return.  It would also severely slow down new releases.

The answer - learn the editor :D  I edit scenarios all the time to fit what I like.  Swap units, change AI plans, alter maps.  Why settle for a scenario you like but wish that you had another platoon - go ahead and add them.  It is your game, you paid for it, get the bang for your buck. When I find a scenario that I really like I dump it into a different folder and start hacking away.  There are a number of them that I may make 5-6 different versions depending on what I want to do.  Change em to night scenarios.  Make it rain.  Anyone who isn't opening the editor is burning money. Campaigns are a bit more problematic.

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I just smile about all the fools that act like the game was broken and they have waited all this time for the patch, like there was no way to play the game in its present state.

So now SF2 is out and we finally see the corrections that will be patched into all the games shortly.

Great, is it better, Yes.

But If I was one of you over picky types, you better watch out. Because that long awaited patch will not make your men act perfect for you all the time still.

I have still noticed things that the infantry does at times that make no sense in any world, how often, not much. but they still do things that I can see you all get worked over about and will cause you to demand it get fixed,.

Some of these actions have been and will likely be within the game forever. 

But I am really been grateful no one has started the campaign on the issues still out there, most are still focused on getting the patch to their favorite game.

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29 minutes ago, slysniper said:

I just smile about all the fools that act like the game was broken and they have waited all this time for the patch, like there was no way to play the game in its present state.

So now SF2 is out and we finally see the corrections that will be patched into all the games shortly.

Great, is it better, Yes.

But If I was one of you over picky types, you better watch out. Because that long awaited patch will not make your men act perfect for you all the time still.

I have still noticed things that the infantry does at times that make no sense in any world, how often, not much. but they still do things that I can see you all get worked over about and will cause you to demand it get fixed,.

Some of these actions have been and will likely be within the game forever. 

But I am really been grateful no one has started the campaign on the issues still out there, most are still focused on getting the patch to their favorite game.

yep pretty much.  As long as the game has a tactical AI there will always be times when you say "wtf?".  And in RL there are plenty of those moments.  What I'd love about now is for our vet forum members to tell some of their best "wtf?" moments.  Entertaining and it would put a more realistic spin on this discussion. :D 

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1 hour ago, sburke said:

yep pretty much.  As long as the game has a tactical AI there will always be times when you say "wtf?".  And in RL there are plenty of those moments.  What I'd love about now is for our vet forum members to tell some of their best "wtf?" moments.  Entertaining and it would put a more realistic spin on this discussion. :D 

CMSF2 "Semper Fi: Syria" Campaign, Recon team detects and disposes of a Syrian HQ unit that had retreated beneath the waters of the creek. Not even the icon was showing. I said to myself "WTF? That was interesting!" I had seen them move into the water some turn earlier, and figured they had decided on suicide rather than face the Marines, even though both choices have the same result. Moved on and finished the mission.

Edited by Vet 0369

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