Fradulent Credit Card Transactions

[Lethaface]

8 hours ago, luigim said:

My next online transactions, not only Battlefront.com ( I'm waiting for Red Thunder module to buy the bundle), will be on Paypal.. I hope it's safe

It's as safe as your account password. I'd consider PayPal itself quite safe, given their size and the services they offer. If 'we' think that PayPal isn't safe, they'll be out of business.

Where I live (Netherlands) we have ATM cards and two-factor system for online debit transactions (or any other banking transaction). It usually involves a phone with sms / app service or a card reader. This system has been in place for at some 10 years now? I don't think any local banks offer debit cards that function like credit cards, but not sure. They might offer them, but it's not general use.
The chances for fraud are much smaller with the two factor system. At the moment I have actually not even activated my credit card due to the fact that nowadays I'm able to use the online 2 factor system for almost anything (paypal, steam, etc). 

ATM card skimming has been a thing for quite a while, with banks taking action to prevent it. Every creditcard or ATM card has a chip on it; it almost always requires a pin nowadays. 

The latest thing is small payments using ATM card, without having to put in a pincode (+ wireless). I have a cardholder with some tinfoil in it, just to make sure it can't be skimmed wirelessly. Although I recently heard that that hasn't actually happened in practice yet, just in labatories.

To say it differently; it seems anti fraud in the US is quite behind how it's handled here. At least in the financial sector.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Lethaface

[Howler]

32 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

To say it differently; it seems anti fraud in the US is quite behind how it's handled here. At least in the financial sector.

Thank no regulation/deregulation. There's on oversight and no incentive for the financial industries to better protect citizens. We'll just bail them out again when the time comes...

Straying off-topic. Apologies.

[Offshoot]

5 hours ago, Lethaface said:

I don't think any local banks offer debit cards that function like credit cards, but not sure.

As this is an educational thread as much as anything, is a debit card that functions as a credit card good or bad? The card I have associated with my paypal account is such a card, though I don't keep any funds on it, transferring them from an online-only account when I need them. I know it doesn't offer the same purchaser protection CCs do in the case of bad vendors, but I don't buy big-ticket items with it.

As far as paypal goes, I made multiple purchases using it in the run up to Christmas (sorry, not from BFC) and have had no problems - this is paying using the paypal option where you get taken off-site - nor any in the many years I have used it.

 

[Bud Backer]

2 hours ago, Offshoot said:

As this is an educational thread as much as anything, is a debit card that functions as a credit card good or bad?

 

The debit cards that have VISA or MASTERCARD labels on them are essentially debit cards, NOT credit cards - at least the ones I've has experience with professionally. The point of them is for online transactions which require a CREDIT card, you can make purchases with them as the vendor will see them as a credit card, whereas they will not accept a debit card. 

 

[BletchleyGeek]

The practical difference I am aware of between credit and debit cards (other than interest rates) is that if you use the later to say, rent a car, you'll also get charged for whatever is the amount set as the deposit/excess. The money is then put into "escrow", whenever the rental company gives the green light, you get a refund. With a credit card you only get charged if the rental company feels within its right to claim the money. In other words, with a debit card, you are literally giving the money pretty much as if it was cash in hand, with a credit card, it is imaginary money until there's a problem.

The issues I have found is that typically, the rental company (even big ones) are hopelessly slow refunding, and in one case with Hertz, I had to make a few angry calls to have them cough up the real money they took from my accounts. If you're operating in a foreign currency, you'll be also paying double comissions etc.

[Jock Tamson]

12 hours ago, Offshoot said:

As this is an educational thread as much as anything, is a debit card that functions as a credit card good or bad? The card I have associated with my paypal account is such a card, though I don't keep any funds on it, transferring them from an online-only account when I need them. I know it doesn't offer the same purchaser protection CCs do in the case of bad vendors, but I don't buy big-ticket items with it.

As far as paypal goes, I made multiple purchases using it in the run up to Christmas (sorry, not from BFC) and have had no problems - this is paying using the paypal option where you get taken off-site - nor any in the many years I have used it.

 

I would have no concerns with that.  My Paypal account is associated with my primary debit card.  The issue I have with debit cards is inputting the details into an online form.  I would never do that.  With the one exception being the one time process of adding the card to Paypal, who I trust.

[AjarmanG]

Just checked my acc and i have also had some purchases I didn't make...

[A Canadian Cat]

15 hours ago, Offshoot said:

As this is an educational thread as much as anything, is a debit card that functions as a credit card good or bad?

One of the issues with answering that is the rules vary from place to place. Last time I checked the fraud coverage for actual Credit cards was better than for Debit cards so I only use credit cards for online purchases even with Pay Pal.

[coachjohn]

Paypal has had its share of hacks over the years. It’s where I had my fi`rest 7 or 8 years ago. Even though my account has been closed for years I get emails with that account # (phishing) so it was stolen

Recently, debit cards are giving the same protection. At least mine. Previously, they were like a forged check - you were responsible for recovering funds (at least some.) They’ve gotten better because they we`re losing so much etrade revenue. Still I dopn’t use mine oneline. Only Amex - best coverage of all. (Al;though they’re all relatively equal)

PS The fact that debit cards have visa or the likes on it does not make it a cc. It allows you to use debit for a credit transaction but it still comes out as debit for you - from your account.

[coachjohn]

Also I try to stay away from paypal as much as possible. Too many horror stories from friends and readings.

[Lethaface]

19 hours ago, Offshoot said:

As this is an educational thread as much as anything, is a debit card that functions as a credit card good or bad? The card I have associated with my paypal account is such a card, though I don't keep any funds on it, transferring them from an online-only account when I need them. I know it doesn't offer the same purchaser protection CCs do in the case of bad vendors, but I don't buy big-ticket items with it.

As far as paypal goes, I made multiple purchases using it in the run up to Christmas (sorry, not from BFC) and have had no problems - this is paying using the paypal option where you get taken off-site - nor any in the many years I have used it.

 

That's a good question, which does indeed depend on where you live. I think I should have been more clear. Now I will try to keep this as simple as possible but that's going to be difficult due to ambiguity:

Debit card = a card used to spend your money with a bank.
Credit card = a card used to spend the banks money, which they then loan to you at an interest rate. 

Both (common like VISA/Mastercard) credit and debit cards come with a Name, expiry date, 16digit number and a CVC code. With this information, you can make online transactions without needing anything else (although some now have the secureCode and or a PIN). The problem is that if someone else gets hold of that info, they can make online transactions with your card without needing anything else.

Because (online) purchases on a credit card (contrary to debit cards) are almost always insured, it's more wise to use a credit card for such online transactions. The drawback is that you will have a credit with your bank over which they are entitled interest (if you don't pay them back directly).

So, if you want to make an online transaction a credit card is usually preferable over a debit card, since you are insured in case the vendor doesn't deliver or your card is hijacked. The risk in using a debit card for online transactions is that in case of a fraud, you do lose your money (on your bank account). Where in case of a credit card, the purchase is insured anyway. I'm not 100% sure whether banks normally refund debit card frauds, but I'd expect a lot more hassle.
And, like @BletchleyGeek explained about the way renting cars work (or hotel reservations) is more practical with a credit card.

There are also other systems to make online transactions. One option that's often used in Netherlands is 'iDEAL'. With iDeal you don't use a debit or credit card, but instead a login from your bank and a two factor system such as a card reader (reading an ATM card) or a SMS service.  It's coupled with your bank account and only allows 'debit' transactions; money you already have on your account.

Unless I make an international online purchase from a vendor I don't really trust, I prefer using debit transactions. There is almost no risk of fraud, don't need the insurance, can't spend money I don't have/can't forget to reimburse the bank directly, don't have to pay interest.
Since the system offers a two factor authentication, it is safe.

If I need to do an online transaction for which I want the insurance my (mastercard) offers, I'll use my credit card. It rarely does happen though, because any purchases I make in The Netherlands are already subject to consumer law which offers enough protection for me and I don't need the credit card insurance.. 

Edit: the 'normal' bank card that my bank offers me, is an ATM (debit) card and isn't able to be used like a 'debit card' for online transactions.

Edit2: Paypal is much more safe compared to entering your credit card details on any random site, as your credit card details aren't all over the pace. Just make sure your paypal account has a strong password.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Lethaface
stuff

[z1812]

My email was hacked recently and I was threatened with having false information sent to all my contacts unless I forwarded funds to the hacker. 

This was shortly after news surfaced about the information dump that was reported last week. Fortunately I have had for many years a "throwaway" email account that I only use when communicating with sites that I am unsure of, or have reason to believe practice poor security. Sure enough the password they had was for that email account.

I just thought I would mention this as something people could do to increase their security. Perhaps some already do this. 

 

[BletchleyGeek]

29 minutes ago, z1812 said:

My email was hacked recently and I was threatened with having false information sent to all my contacts unless I forwarded funds to the hacker. 

Stuff like "we have hacked your computer and have footage of you enjoying porn", with a sentence like "by the way, your password is XXXX"? And XXXXX is a password appearing in one of the big password data dumps. That is a scam that has been out for a couple months, but like those thpusands of entreperneuring Nigerian princes with millions of dollars to give away to willing business partners, they probably still do it because there is some fish taking the bait.

 

[Battlefront.com]

In the US (at least) there is no singular policy about debit cards with credit card capabilities.  GENERALLY speaking if you make a debit purchase (with your PIN) it gets treated one way, if you use it as a credit card it is treated a different way.  The general advice given to users of these cards is to use the debit function in trusted ATMs (such as one inside a bank) and use the credit function for everything else.  While it is true that either way the money comes directly out of your bank account, if it is run as a credit card you are protected by the usual credit card protections.  However, if it is run as a debit card you might or might not be.

When you stick your debit card into a non-ATM you are likely asked for a PIN right away.  If you hit ENTER it skips this step and then proceeds as a credit card.  Usually

What it really boils down to is making sure you understand what sort of protection you have for a particular card, be it a debit/credit card or one that is pure credit.  Policies vary quite a bit and you should figure out what your level of protection is before you get hit with a fraud charge.  Because if you use either type of card IT WILL HAPPEN at some point, probably sooner than later and probably more than once.

Steve

P.S.  European banking has been ahead of US banking technology for many, many years.  Don't believe me?  As a European what a check/cheque is and see what answer you get

Steve

[Ultradave]

1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said:

IP.S.  European banking has been ahead of US banking technology for many, many years.  Don't believe me?  As a European what a check/cheque is and see what answer you get

Steve

While living in England we had to specifically request checks. They don't normally give them. But there were occasions when we did need them. Seldom, though. We have chip and pin cards YEARS before we finally got them here. Dinner at a pub - if there is a server, they come to you with the card processor, hand it to you for your pin, or print a credit slip. Your card never leaves your hand or your sight. Ever. This was some years ago now. 

On the other hand, we asked our neighbors once, "Is it just us or are the banks incompetent, but you can do almost anything at the Post Office?  I needed to wire money back to my account in the US (to stay under the limit for foreign accounts from the US). Local bank branch couldn't do it. Had to go to the more major branch in Barrow. They couldn't figure it out. I had all the exact information SWIFT code, intermediary bank and account. My US bank is USAA and they are really good with international stuff as you might expect. I literally had to show them how to fill out their own form. This was Barclay's (at the time - the second largest bank in the world). The branch in Barrow said they had never had to wire money before. Seriously. I told them I found that impossible to believe. There were 17 Americans there for years. Most banked at that bank. I KNOW they've wired money home. "We don't usually do this you know".  Wanted to reach over and slap them. "It's a service you offer. You advertise it. Prominently. RIGHT THERE (up on the wall) I want to wire money to the US. So PLEASE can we?"

Chip and pin - years ahead. Much more secure. EVERYTHING ELSE BANKING - the dark ages. (at least in the UK).

[Offshoot]

Thanks for your replies. This thread is a timely reminder that after a long time with no issues I think I have become complacent. Time for some spring cleaning.

[Offshoot]

50 minutes ago, Ultradave said:

Chip and pin - years ahead. Much more secure. EVERYTHING ELSE BANKING - the dark ages. (at least in the UK).

Strange. I also bank with Barclays and when in the UK in the 90s would send money back to New Zealand with no issues. Nowadays I can even do it online from NZ using a PINsentry that generates a code using my card.

[Erwin]

3 hours ago, Ultradave said:

(to stay under the limit for foreign accounts from the US...

That's an art form all of it's own...  

But yeah, these days one has to function as if everything confidential can and will be, or has been, hacked.  Have always considered ATM cards to be dangerous as it tends to be YOUR problem if fraud is committed, whereas with a CC, the companies are very good about fixing the problem with no loss to the customer.  Don't really understand why people use ATM's - I simply carry sufficient cash at all times - altho in UK at least, it's hard to do any banking at all at a branch without an ATM card for ID purposes.  Quite annoying actually.

[Battlefront.com]

It is funny how things go. When I lived in London in 1990, ATMs were just starting to be rolled out.  IIRC some Barclays (where I banked) didn't even have them yet.  The one at my branch was inside so you could only use it during bank hours.  But in the US they were in all banks, inside and out, and in all kinds of other locations, such as kiosks in malls.  And you could use a credit card in most retail locations, in Britain you had to have cash for most (I did most of my "shopping" at pubs, so that was fine!).  British Telecom gave us bills on parchment delivered by a man on a mule every 3rd Thursday.  I'm hoping that they've at least advanced as far as using dot matrix printers

Which is just to point out that the progress of technologies within a given society are not necessarily even nor do they necessarily follow the same pattern as other countries. 

Steve

[Erwin]

5 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

every 3rd Thursday

They have now reduced delivery to every 4th Thursday to save costs...

Seriously, the London councils used to pick up garbage from one bin every week.  Then the EU rules came in and everyone had to have three of four large different colored bins, one for recycled materials, one for organic, another for plastic or something else I couldn't even figure for what etc.  If you know London, hardly anyone has a large front garden area so now the fronts of all houses are degraded and made ugly with these huge ugly bins.  And then pick up was reduced to alternate weeks, so one has rotting garbage sitting by one's front door for 2 weeks.  And I think last time I was in London they were planning on reducing pick up schedules even further...  

Talk about declining living standards...

Edited January 24, 2019 by Erwin

[Holien]

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

They have now reduced delivery to every 4th Thursday to save costs...

Seriously, the London councils used to pick up garbage from one bin every week.  Then the EU rules came in and everyone had to have three of four large different colored bins, one for recycled materials, one for organic, another for plastic or something else I couldn't even figure for what etc.  If you know London, hardly anyone has a large front garden area so now the fronts of all houses are degraded and made ugly with these huge ugly bins.  And then pick up was reduced to alternate weeks, so one has rotting garbage sitting by one's front door for 2 weeks.  And I think last time I was in London they were planning on reducing pick up schedules even further...  

Talk about declining living standards...

It's called recycling and saving the planet, something that America (and other countries) might want to adopt...

Nothing to do with declining living standards!!!

[General Jack Ripper]

6 hours ago, Holien said:

It's called recycling and saving the planet, something that America (and other countries) might want to adopt...

Nothing to do with declining living standards!!!

Oh please. 

[sburke]

6 hours ago, Holien said:

It's called recycling and saving the planet, something that America (and other countries) might want to adopt...

Nothing to do with declining living standards!!!

For what it is worth we actually have a pretty good recycling effort here.  Then again I live in the area of the liberal hell spawn - California. We also have multiple cans for disposal. It isn’t exactly a huge effort and to your point the cost of not doing it is severe. I would have thought most people on this planet could understand by now that recycling is actually a smart thing to be doing. Reducing the number of pick ups would seem to be more of the problem not the recycling effort. 

Frankly what bothered me more in London when walking to the office was avoiding the puke around Piccadilly Circus in the early morning.  Recycling in a different less useful form. 

[Wicky]

3 minutes ago, sburke said:

Frankly what bothered me more in London when walking to the office was avoiding the puke around Piccadilly Circus in the early morning.  Recycling in a different less useful form. 

Not quite London but... 'Like a beautiful painting': image of New Year's mayhem in Manchester goes viral

[sburke]

I can hear that guys thought “wtf just happened? Oh my god it is safe, I didn’t spill my beer”