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1 hour ago, 76mm said:

Well, I think that what happened to cause this change was that more and better history of the war started coming out of Russia, so that instead of only reading the pablum put out by German generals after the war about the super-competent but hopelessly outnumbered German heroes vs the inept Red hordes, readers and players could better understand that this was a war to the death between two different, but powerful foes.

I'm out of likes for today but I'd say this is spot on.

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If CMRT did sell atleast half decent i don't think that BFC will need to worry to much about lack of intrest when it comes to the 41, 42, and 43 games...

For those that are seriously intrested in history in general and especially those that love the WW2 era  i don't think that  OPERATION BAGRATION is something new. They know about it already. But if you only have a slight intrest in history/WW2 i seriously doubt that many people have ever heard of OPERATION BAGRATION (CMRT).

Still...It did sell (i guess).

But when it comes to BARBAROSSA and probably even STALINGRAD and KURSK...Far more people with a more limited WW2 intrest knowes about those events compared to BAGATION.

Therefore the intrest 'world wide' ought to be higher for any such release... one would think...☺️

 

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1 hour ago, IanL said:
3 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

That leaves Youtube, but take one look at any youtube CM video and the first thing you notice is that it's not a casual game. If I were a casual gamer, I'd just shake my head and go back to Call of War III or whatever it's called nowadays :)

??? if they read about the game on a mainstream game site or read about it on steam wouldn't they also realize it's not a casual game and shake their head and go back to their RTS BS?

Yep, the whole thing was just a long way of saying that I don't see how any casual gamers would "accidentally" stumble upon and buy any of these games. So I don't think a large portion of the playerbase is made up of casuals. And thus I don't think the old idea about US players only being interested in US conflicts applies to CM.

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I don't really agree with this...that CM is not a casual game.

It most certanly can be. In order to play it and enjoy it you don"t have to be a tactical genious or neccesarely know the inns and outs of every piece of eauiment in the game. You don't have to know the ultimate engagementrange of a StuG III when facing of frontally against a T34. You don"t have to have 100 % understanding of the C2 rules etc, etc.

It most certanly will help if you do. But it is not neccesary. You can play...and win even without knowing those things.

The one thing that you need to apprisiate though is REALISM ! Even a casual gamer can apprisiate this...

When it comes to realism Combat Mission is far, far beyond any competition. Atleast when compared to 'casual' games like Company of heros, Men of war, sudden strike or whatever these 'children games' might be called.

For a casual gamer looking for a bit more of a realistic experience...combat mission is the way to happiness 😁...

It ought to be sellable to the casual crowdes also imho...

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56 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Yep, the whole thing was just a long way of saying that I don't see how any casual gamers would "accidentally" stumble upon and buy any of these games. So I don't think a large portion of the playerbase is made up of casuals. And thus I don't think the old idea about US players only being interested in US conflicts applies to CM.

Nah, I remember hearing from Steve that US-centered CM titles did sell better. As well as statistics that the vast majority of CM players are Americans. Surprise, surprise, most CM titles are US-centered. Nothing wrong with that, I like playing as the Yanks -- except their BARs.

I was thinking recently -- don't worry, not too hard:

CM2 has late war Eastern Front, Italy, late war Western Front, and 21st century titles.

Graviteam Tactics has early war Eastern Front, Africa and 60s, 70s and 80s Cold War titles.

The only overlap is Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, which is not updated by BFC -- and not updated by Graviteam.

There must be a non-aggression plan, in place.

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19 minutes ago, DerKommissar said:

Nah, I remember hearing from Steve that US-centered CM titles did sell better. As well as statistics that the vast majority of CM players are Americans. Surprise, surprise, most CM titles are US-centered.

 

I think it comes down to well-known fronts selling better than obscure ones. But since the US forces were fighting in the most famous battles - Normandy and especially D-day probably being the most famous - then there's an overlap. My point being that it's not so much about the nationality, as wanting to fight out the stuff from the movies.

The test of my theory would be if they made CM:Stalingrad. Extremely well known battle, and not a GI Joe in sight.

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On 1/16/2019 at 11:11 PM, kevinkin said:

As much as we old school wargamers would crave Barbarossa, it's probably out of our reach in any future rendition of the CM franchise. The same is true for the Pacific or France 1940. BFC designs products based on their personal interest and passion for the subject. Certain subjects are not in their wheelhouse.

Barbarossa is definitely in the wheelhouse. They already created it once before (it was even in the title). They did the entire Ostfront along with Finns, Hungarians, Italians, Poles, Romanians and Partisans. If that doesn't tell you they've got a woody for the East Front I don't know what will! Time is the enemy not the subject matter.

 

Mord.

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Mord Is Correct. In my estimation. I'd like to see the rest of the war covered as well.

Edited by benpark
Spilled water on my leg while typing, setting off a Buster Keaton-worthy chain of events that interrupted my post.

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On 1/22/2019 at 4:29 PM, Mord said:

Barbarossa is definitely in the wheelhouse. They already created it once before (it was even in the title). They did the entire Ostfront along with Finns, Hungarians, Italians, Poles, Romanians and Partisans. If that doesn't tell you they've got a woody for the East Front I don't know what will! Time is the enemy not the subject matter.

Mord.

Steve has said on several occasions how much he likes the Eastern Front.  But I can't see then doing anything earlier than Kursk, your average gamer doesn't know about anything before that.  Except maybe the name of a city on the Volga...   

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4 hours ago, wadepm said:

Steve has said on several occasions how much he likes the Eastern Front.  But I can't see then doing anything earlier than Kursk, your average gamer doesn't know about anything before that.  Except maybe the name of a city on the Volga...   

Tsaritsyn? Volgagrad? 😉

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6 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I'd like to think that the "average gamer" doesn't play CM. It's too good for hoi polloi. 

That's the problem, as far as sales are concerned.  I am sure Steve would love for the average gamer to buy CM - and not play it.

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I think wargamers mostly would love Barbarossa.  What's not to love?  Not all want this, but most I am sure.  Great, epic battles of encirclement and desperate counterattacks,  hopeless defensive struggles where all you can do is try to take as many germans with you as possible and delay them.  It's not all a walkover by the germans -- the stand in front of Smolensk in July that brought the germans to a halt.  Lots of great battles w lots of goofy gear -- the semi-obsolete masses of russian tanks, the czech T35 T38, silly little pz1 and pz2.  And the shock of meeting a KV tank for the first time and having nothing that can penetrate its armor.  Great stuff.  Lots of maneuver (well, for the germans). 

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I'm not pessimistic about the future of quality wargames like CM. Look at the amount of serious, new books on ww2 lately. After a long time of copying each other's nonsense, a new generation of historians are publishing books that really add something new to our understanding of war and history. Not for the hoi polloi either, but still enough people who are willing  to spend a lot of money on these books. Same goes for CM, I think.

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13 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

I'm not pessimistic about the future of quality wargames like CM. Look at the amount of serious, new books on ww2 lately. After a long time of copying each other's nonsense, a new generation of historians are publishing books that really add something new to our understanding of war and history. Not for the hoi polloi either, but still enough people who are willing  to spend a lot of money on these books. Same goes for CM, I think.

Hear hear Aragorn2002!  Well said.  Great WW2 books from newer historians who are not just repeating stories from other books, they are doing research and greatly enlightening us and challenging myths we've grown up with. 

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41 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Not for the hoi polloi 

Please see my earlier post above, there is no "the" in front of "hoi polloi". I do wish people would remember that. Exits stage right tutting loudly  ------------------->

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Please see my earlier post above, there is no "the" in front of "hoi polloi". I do wish people would remember that. Exits stage right tutting loudly  ------------------->

PEERS: Our lordly style
You shall not quench
With base canaille!

FAIRIES: (That word is French.)

PEERS: Distinction ebbs
Before a herd
Of vulgar plebs!

FAIRIES: (A Latin word.)

PEERS: 'Twould fill with joy,
And madness stark
The hoi polloi!

FAIRIES: (A Greek remark.)

Sir William Schwenck Gilbert (18 November 1836 – 29 May 1911)

🧐

Another Brexit, I guess.

Edited by Aragorn2002

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Hahaha... So we have Sir William to blame for my fellow countrymen getting it wrong all these years. What a Schwencker, as Del Boy almost said. Meanwhile "Bugger Brexit" as George V said. Oh sorry, that was "Bognor"

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that's a clause in Brexit, I think.  All non-English words are to be forbidden unless royalties are paid to the contributing language originator.  Oh, wait, English is basically a pidgin of Germanic & Latin languages (french, et al), so I guess they'll have to pay for every word used.  That should shorten speeches.  But does that mean no more BBC shows for me?  Maybe just more brooding to save on word count.

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19 minutes ago, danfrodo said:

.  But does that mean no more BBC shows for me? 

Six Nation Rugby with dutch commentary. Horror of horrors...What's the EU without Britain?

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I wonder if Brexit means that UK & France can start fighting again, like in the good old days.  Actually, whatever is left of the UK after N. Ireland and Scotland leave over their anger on Brexit.  Though Neither May nor Marcon seems ready to fill the shoes of the likes of Napoleon or Wellington.

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