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Time table on when beginning of Barbarossa units/weapons/vehicles  will be made? Since I don't own red thunder which has the years of 1944-1945, I am guessing the newer would have  TO&E of 1941-1943.

 

I also highly recommend watching the documentary

Soviet Storm. WW2 in the East

Edited by user1000

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It would be wonderful to have a deadline for this era.  However, probably not possible as many of us have asked similar question for several years.  At current rate of development my guestimate is 5+ years.   And by then CM2 may well have to be replaced by a CM3 which would have to be a major advance in the art like the difference between CM1 and CM2.   But, who knows...?

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Unfortunatelly simply developing the unit rosters ( OOBs, TOEs, artwork etc.) for the various formations and eqiupments is a pretty lenthy process in it self if i understand previous comments by BFC correctly. 

If that was not the case i would suggest that BFC would seriously considder releasing a sort of CMBB 2 'light'...or CMBB 2 'editor pack' or whatever one should call it.

A simular version to CMBB as far as timeframe and avaliable units are conserned (41 - 45 including minor allies)...BUT WITH NO SCENARIOS AND NO CAMPAIGNS included.

Designing the playable content would be up to the community. After the release of the 'editor base-game' BFC could assist in the development of playable content if they are still working on CM 2 at that time...

Even without the help of BFC i'm pretty sure we would se a steady stream of eastern front scenarios being made avaliable by the community for many years to come...

Releasing a product with no playable content might not be a perfect solution but considdering the alternativ i think it is something that varants some serious considderation...

As many have mentioned...given the current releaserate of new products...We ever seeing early eastern front games in CM2 seems very unlikely unfortunatelly...

 

 

 

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That is actually a pretty interesting idea.  I’d buy it, but then again I am not afraid to play in the editor to create stuff even if it is just for me.  Developing a product with no user content is something I expect Steve would say “you are crazy” to, but yeah I am a bit crazy that way. 

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Basegames for titles often only cover 3-4 months. Further expansion packs tend to push the date forward, not backward. CMFB, CMRT and CMFI are all scheduled to go to war's end. For CMFI that's a significant amount of time, from July '43 to May '45. If, hypothetically, next Eastern Front title is Citadel/Kursk basegame would center around July 1943. If they did a Stalingrad title that would probably  start August '42. Still a long way away from 1941.

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4 hours ago, RepsolCBR said:

Unfortunatelly simply developing the unit rosters ( OOBs, TOEs, artwork etc.) for the various formations and eqiupments is a pretty lenthy process in it self if i understand previous comments by BFC correctly. 

If that was not the case i would suggest that BFC would seriously considder releasing a sort of CMBB 2 'light'...or CMBB 2 'editor pack' or whatever one should call it.

A simular version to CMBB as far as timeframe and avaliable units are conserned (41 - 45 including minor allies)...BUT WITH NO SCENARIOS AND NO CAMPAIGNS included.

Designing the playable content would be up to the community. After the release of the 'editor base-game' BFC could assist in the development of playable content if they are still working on CM 2 at that time...

Even without the help of BFC i'm pretty sure we would se a steady stream of eastern front scenarios being made avaliable by the community for many years to come...

Releasing a product with no playable content might not be a perfect solution but considdering the alternativ i think it is something that varants some serious considderation...

As many have mentioned...given the current releaserate of new products...We ever seeing early eastern front games in CM2 seems very unlikely unfortunatelly...

 

 

 

I'm not so sure about that - CMFB was released in 2016 - user made content posted at the Scenario Depot = 2 x Campaigns, 2 x Maps and 9 x Scenarios. While I accept that not everybody releases stuff there, it is still a reasonable indicator that people aren't cranking out a steady stream of content.

Conceptually though, your idea is interesting.

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Technically, two titles will be wrapping up full time development on their next release, Red Thunder and Fortress Italy (barring upgrades and any packs that may be released). That leaves Final Blitzkrieg and Black Sea. FB will end after its only module (again same caveat as RT and FI). That leaves BS with one or more modules to be developed. That should open up the pace a bit. But yeah, we still aren't gonna see Barbarossa for quite a while.

Interesting part is what is going to fill the gaps when all that is being developed is two Russia oriented titles (RT sequel and Black Sea)? That's all that's gonna be on the table once FB is finished. Are they gonna do a bunch of packs for the people that aren't interested in Modern, or the East Front? Are they gonna venture into a different theater or war? Wooo, the future is filled with mystery!

BTW I thought a second programmer was coming onboard? Never heard anything about that after it was mentioned.

 

Mord.

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18 minutes ago, Zveroboy1 said:

I am going to go out on a limb here and I'd be happy to be proven wrong but my guess is that we'll never see Barbarossa in the current iteration of CM.

That'd be fine with me as long as I didn't have to wait another 12 years to see everything we have now in CM3. That's one of the only things that makes me fear a new engine.

 

Mord.

Edited by Mord

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Well maybe Barbarossa will be the first game they release with the new engine when it is ready instead of starting all over again with Normandy. I know Normandy is the most popular theatre sales wise but it would make sense to cover theatres that have been left untouched so far. North Africa perhaps. Anything with Rommel or Fox in the title is bound to be fairly popular I imagine.

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4 hours ago, Combatintman said:

I'm not so sure about that - CMFB was released in 2016 - user made content posted at the Scenario Depot = 2 x Campaigns, 2 x Maps and 9 x Scenarios. While I accept that not everybody releases stuff there, it is still a reasonable indicator that people aren't cranking out a steady stream of content.

 

I am hoping with the release of the v4 patch that fixes the infantry being shelled behaviour for the other games, we might see more content and scenarios being created. At the moment it feels a bit pointless. I mean the problem with the lack of fan made scenario probably goes deeper than that but this is maybe a factor too.

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3 minutes ago, Zveroboy1 said:

I am hoping with the release of the v4 patch that fixes the infantry being shelled behaviour for the other games, we might see more content and scenarios being created. At the moment it feels a bit pointless. I mean the problem with the lack of fan made scenario probably goes deeper than that but this is maybe a factor too.

Part of the problem with having multiple titles is work will be split.  How do the figures add up in general for all titles?

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14 minutes ago, Zveroboy1 said:

Well maybe Barbarossa will be the first game they release with the new engine when it is ready instead of starting all over again with Normandy.

I meant that I'd love it if there was some kind of way to port everything. I doubt it but a guy can dream. They may not even make a version three. Who knows?

 

Mord.

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11 minutes ago, sburke said:

Part of the problem with having multiple titles is work will be split.  How do the figures add up in general for all titles?

True but even if you add up all the user made scenarios for RT, FB and BS, it probably won't come anywhere close to the Shock Force 1 numbers. Granted it was the first and only game in the series but still I am not sure why there is such a disparity.

6 minutes ago, Mord said:

I meant that I'd love it if there was some kind of way to port everything. I doubt it but a guy can dream. They may not even make a version three. Who knows?

 

Mord.

Yeah I understood what you meant, but my take on it is that if they start with Barbarossa or North Africa, in a way the old content would still remain relevant. Late war for CM2 and early period for CM3. You could play both and what we have now wouldn't be (completely) obsolete.

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8 minutes ago, Zveroboy1 said:

True but even if you add up all the user made scenarios for RT, FB and BS, it probably won't come anywhere close to the Shock Force 1 numbers. Granted it was the first and only game in the series but still I am not sure why there is such a disparity.

Well for one craft has gotten better.  If you look at a lot of the early scenarios map making skills have grown, the newer titles have more complicated terrain, new AI plan capabilities etc etc  It isn't apples to apples to compare CMSF1 especially early period with later titles.

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Well still. I have downloaded this rar file that someone on this forum compiled with all the scenarios released for SF1. (I forgot who it was but thanks). And it has 600 or 700 scenarios in it. Combatintman says a grand total of 9 scenarios released in what? two years for FB. Let's say RT and BS have 3 times this number for argument sake, maybe it is more i don't know, this isn't even close.

Anyway this is what it is. I have probably made half a dozen scenarios over the years for RT, BS and SF1 and twice as many maps for my own use that I never published because they're only 80% done or I don't think they're good enough. I am probably not the only one.

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Just now, Zveroboy1 said:

Well still. I have downloaded this rar file that someone on this forum compiled with all the scenarios released for SF1. (I forgot who it was but thanks). And it has 600 or 700 scenarios in it. Combatintman says a grand total of 9 scenarios released in what? two years for FB. Let's say RT and BS have 3 times this number for argument sake, maybe it is more i don't know, this isn't even close.

Anyway this is what it is. I have probably made half a dozen scenarios over the years for RT, BS and SF1 and twice as many maps for my own use that I never published because they're only 80% done or I don't think they're good enough. I am probably not the only one.

I downloaded the same file.  Not to take away too much from the amount of work but there are a lot of repeats.

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11 hours ago, sburke said:

 I’d buy it, but then again I am not afraid to play in the editor to create stuff even if it is just for me. 

i'd buy it to (for the same reason)...

8 hours ago, Combatintman said:

I'm not so sure about that - CMFB was released in 2016 - user made content posted at the Scenario Depot = 2 x Campaigns, 2 x Maps and 9 x Scenarios. While I accept that not everybody releases stuff there, it is still a reasonable indicator that people aren't cranking out a steady stream of content.

Conceptually though, your idea is interesting.

I fully understand your point...

but i feel that CMFB might suffer from the same 'short commings' that plaig many of the releases...being restricted to a very limited timeframe sort of limits the options for scenario designing ideas. Many of the more 'obvious' ideas for this timeframe have already been covered to some degree by the stock scenarios and campaigns.

A CMBB 2 editor pack would not share these 'short commings'...We as the designers would have the entire eastern front conflict at our fingertips...Whatever idea we get into our heads we could do...regardless of timeperiod (as long as we stick to the 41 - 45 timeframe). The options here would be massive !

Quite a difference compared to CMFB currently...

personally i have a sh**tload of ideas i would like to try and design for the eastern front in the 41 - 43 timeperiod....both historical and what ifs..

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, RepsolCBR said:

A CMBB 2 editor pack would not share these 'short commings'...

We would all love something like that but this may be a bad business model for BF.  IIRC it cost them a bundle giving players the whole war in one CMBBv1 game - no modules to sell.  Or... the CMBBv2 game you suggest would have to cost $300+. 

Although not directly comparable games of course, look what's happening with "Star Citizen".  In development since 2012 - lots of eye-popping graphics but very little playable content so far.  (And cost $200 million so far!)

11 hours ago, Mord said:

wait another 12 years to see everything we have now in CM3. That's one of the only things that makes me fear a new engine.

This is definitely a concern since who knows where any of us will be in 5+ years.  But, the bigger question is what new customers will buy a game in 2024 onwards with basically 17+ year old graphics?    When one has slow development one runs into this "Catch 22" situation.

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18 hours ago, Zveroboy1 said:

You could play both and what we have now wouldn't be (completely) obsolete.

That would all depend on how much of a leap the 3rd engine ended up being. If it was like the difference between CMAK and now, that'd be a hard pill!

 

tf0IJ8P.jpg

 

But yeah, I probably wouldn't completely give up on it unless there were too many new features that killed it for me. Example: The differences between Medieval 2 and Rome II aren't enough to where I can't enjoy both. So, it'd have to be a major, major, evolution.

 

Mord.

Edited by Mord

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15 hours ago, Erwin said:

We would all love something like that but this may be a bad business model for BF.  IIRC it cost them a bundle giving players the whole war in one CMBBv1 game

True...

CMBB(1) was not a financial success according to BFC and a CMBB2 editor pack will probably not be a huge source of income either if we compare it to likely profits from releasing 3 more regular basegames (43, 42 and 41 timeperiod) accompanied by maybe two additional modules/ title.

The question is though...Will they release such products...will they complete the eastern front in CM2...or will they simply finish the currently worked on CMRT module (to the end of the war) and call it quits as far as CM2 eastern front goes ?

When BFC have finished the first module for CMFB and brought that front to the end of the war that pretty much only leaves the eastern front left to finish...Maybe with the exception of a CMBS module. As stated previously CMSF2 will recieve no further modules atleast not according to the shared plans for the future.

Is it really likely that BFC will spend the next five years or something like that releasing nothing but WW2 eastern front games. Or will they start developing a new series of games for an additional conflict ?

The CM2 engine is somewhat starting to show its age. Should BFC commit to an entirely new conflict with a full series of releases in addition to completeing the WW2 eastern front ? That will 'lock' them to CM2 development for many years to come...
Or should they try to finish off CM2 by completeing the WW2 series of games (eastern front) and move on to a new game engine ? If they do decide to complete the CM2 WW2 series by releasing seperate full basegames followd by modules it will still take them a long time to get this CM2 thing delt with.

The reason for releasing a CMBB2 editor pack (as a single product) would be to allow BFC to 'sort of' complete the CM2 WW2 series in a somewhat shorter timeframe to allow all hands to be devoted to the development of the CM3 engine. The scenarios designers associated with
BFC could still assist the community in the development of scenarios and campaigns (battle packs) to generate some more money from the CMBB2 release while the BFC programers are working on CM3.

Personally i'm starting to fear that we will not be seeing any early war, eastern front games. And that makes me SAD ! To me a CMBB2 editor pack sounds like a rather good 'solution'...

Darn it !!! i really want to play Barbarossa, Typhoon, Case blue, russian 'planet offensives' kind of battles...and i want it now 😉

What ever you do BFC...please don't skip the early ww2 eastern front games...thanks !

   

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Citadel game would be easy to do. Same or very close TO&E, same vehicles. Open terrain with few objects. But fortifications have to be adjusted, Russian trenches didn't have that sandbags. And foxholes were dig with opening in front for firing prone.

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