Armor Precision Arty

[Euri]

I am wondering if anyone has managed to kill a Syrian tank with precision artillery (armor). Not me, after having spent around 15 rounds in numerous occasions many of which were direct hits. I suspect a glitch because these are too many events to be a coincidence.  

[Boche]

I managed to knock out a static t55 with a 120mm mortar, not precision...but it works.

[MikeyD]

I just ran a quick mini test with 155mm precision anti-armor. Spotter was a FO HQ unit. Two tanks, the first one got a round through the engine deck and was destroyed, the second round just missed, exploding next to rear sprocket, damaging the tracks but not immobilizing it. The FO had no special equipment like a laser designator.

I assume they're firing M982 Excalibur precision round which is GPS-guided. That implies it'll hit the spot where its directed whether there's a tank there or not. The minimum circular error probability is 4-5 meters, that's just enough elbow room to just miss a tank sitting on the action square if you're unlucky.

[Vet 0369]

18 hours ago, MikeyD said:

I just ran a quick mini test with 155mm precision anti-armor. Spotter was a FO HQ unit. Two tanks, the first one got a round through the engine deck and was destroyed, the second round just missed, exploding next to rear sprocket, damaging the tracks but not immobilizing it. The FO had no special equipment like a laser designator.

I assume they're firing M982 Excalibur precision round which is GPS-guided. That implies it'll hit the spot where its directed whether there's a tank there or not. The minimum circular error probability is 4-5 meters, that's just enough elbow room to just miss a tank sitting on the action square if you're unlucky.

Yup, that's happened to me. Missed a static tank by a meter or two with an M982 when using an HQ FO. I suspect, with no data to back it up, that there is less chance of that happening when using a drone that's above the target than an FO who's on the same horizontal plane as the target.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Vet 0369

[MikeyD]

The precision rounds would hit buildings very reliably because 1) they're bigger, and 2) you don't need to quesstimate the exact position of a building on a map. Wikipedia says there's an 'Excaliber S' round that incorporates laser targeting to get around the targeting mobile vehicles problem. Its a Raytheon-driven project, I don't know if the Army's interested.

Edited January 5, 2019 by MikeyD

[Sulomon]

I've reliably killed the modernized T-72s with excaliber ammunition.  You must be having bad luck or something.

[Euri]

4 hours ago, Sulomon said:

I've reliably killed the modernized T-72s with excaliber ammunition.  You must be having bad luck or something.

Probably this (of the extreme version). Was your kill with "Armor" rounds?

[Sulomon]

4 hours ago, Euri said:

Probably this (of the extreme version). Was your kill with "Armor" rounds?

I think it was general ammunition.

[Vet 0369]

13 hours ago, Sulomon said:

I think it was general ammunition.

 

18 hours ago, Euri said:

Probably this (of the extreme version). Was your kill with "Armor" rounds?

Ok, so you aren't talking about the Excaliber round. That's fired only when choosing "Precision" fire.  "Personnel, Armor, and General," are not precision guided rounds. So is what you are really asking about is the relative ability of a "General" or "Armor" shot to kill a tank IF it happens to hit the tank? I usually use three guns (if possible) to fire a precision Excalibur round each to kill a stationary tank, and even then, I've had all three miss and crater the ground a meter or two in front of, in back of, and beside the tank. I imagine the odor in the tank was pretty unpleasant, but no visible damage to the tank.

[Vet 0369]

On January 4, 2019 at 4:15 PM, Euri said:

I am wondering if anyone has managed to kill a Syrian tank with precision artillery (armor). Not me, after having spent around 15 rounds in numerous occasions many of which were direct hits. I suspect a glitch because these are too many events to be a coincidence.  

The Precision selection uses only the Excalibur. If the round was an "Armor" round, you didn't select "Precision." The Precision" selection, whether it's for the 155mm or the 120mm mortar, is guided, and you don't have the ability to select "Personnel," "General," or "Armor."

[MikeyD]

I just checked CMSF2. After selecting 155 'Precision' we are then allowed to either select General, Personnel or Armor. I know nothing about the fusing for real-world Excalibur, if it has an option for airburst, impact or delay fusing like a normal artillery round. I did a Google search and picts pop up that look like airburst explosions tagged as Excalibur.

Checking further, all of the precision artillery in CMBS including Excalibur, XM395 120mm mortar round and  Russian Krasnopol get a selection of 'General' or 'Personnel', no 'Armor' option.

[Vet 0369]

Sorry, my bad. I didn't remember having those options with precision.

[RexSaur]

On 1/5/2019 at 5:15 AM, Euri said:

I am wondering if anyone has managed to kill a Syrian tank with precision artillery (armor). Not me, after having spent around 15 rounds in numerous occasions many of which were direct hits. I suspect a glitch because these are too many events to be a coincidence.  

Yes, I had that too on the 1st mission of the TF Thunder campaign with multiple dug in Syrian tanks. On other missions it worked alright though so maybe the glitch is mission related.

[akd]

“Armor” should read “penetration.” It is actually a poor choice against armor since there are no true anti-armor artillery rounds in game, and a near miss from a ground burst should be more damaging than a shell that buries into ground before bursting.

Note: it is possible that the armor selection does nothing in game.  Might be worth testing against some multi-story buildings and seeing if the setting leads to shells penetrating more often to lower floors.

[akd]

On 1/6/2019 at 9:31 PM, MikeyD said:

I just checked CMSF2. After selecting 155 'Precision' we are then allowed to either select General, Personnel or Armor. I know nothing about the fusing for real-world Excalibur, if it has an option for airburst, impact or delay fusing like a normal artillery round. I did a Google search and picts pop up that look like airburst explosions tagged as Excalibur.

Checking further, all of the precision artillery in CMBS including Excalibur, XM395 120mm mortar round and  Russian Krasnopol get a selection of 'General' or 'Personnel', no 'Armor' option.

Excalibur does does have full fusing options, but there is no reason for only Excalibur to have all three options.

[MikeyD]

I think in WWII what we call 'Armor' fusing was named 'concrete', a hard armor nose for penetrating with a microsecond delay. I once used an 'armor' round (120mm mortar?) on a building and it killed everyone inside 2 floors down. Normally it would have exploded on the roof.

[Euri]

My observations were for Precision -> Armor. I had many instances of a direct hit (I am not debating the accuracy - I am talking only about the rounds that they hit the target). None of the hits resulted in killing a Syrian Tank. But as I said, I might have been just unlucky.

[Boche]

11 hours ago, MikeyD said:

I think in WWII what we call 'Armor' fusing was named 'concrete', a hard armor nose for penetrating with a microsecond delay. I once used an 'armor' round (120mm mortar?) on a building and it killed everyone inside 2 floors down. Normally it would have exploded on the roof.

hmhmmhhmhm gona have to test that...that would be a preety good discovery