What unit is best for spoting for arty, using Drones etc

[NeoOhm]

I wonder, what unit is better for spotting for arty, is it the FO team or is it the highest in command for that platoon etc?
Do they relay targeting info and get a better accuracy on arty?
Who should use the drone, and who should call in attack on the drones id on targets - i see that only the user of the drone can point the exact target.

My questions is - how do i get the best effect on my arty?
If i have two equal teams, except that one team have + on morale and one 0 or -

Is there a in depth explanation on what to use, when to use it and how?
The ammo issue is somewhat interesting, there i had to read up online to see what ammo goes where etc.

So, is there a in depth "manual" on every item, weapon , who should spot, who should use drones and is drone spotting better than visual, with a scout team with laser range finding.

How do i use air, when i maximize their target area, do they search and destroy then, looks like it, but what is the difference between light, med heavy in these attacks - is it how long they stay on the mission aka using more ammo or is it the target priority?

How wide do drones, depending on type  scan the sides of a linear pantern 

And lastly, how do i maximize my Precision strike on Excalibur ammo?

Hope you guys can answer these questions or have some great lings to provide.

Thank you in advance

[Sgt.Squarehead]

9 minutes ago, NeoOhm said:

How do i use air, when i maximize their target area, do they search and destroy then, looks like it, but what is the difference between light, med heavy in these attacks - is it how long they stay on the mission aka using more ammo or is it the target priority?

Light, Medium and Heavy strikes select the ordnance that the air asset will expend on that pass.....For a Hind D in CM:A Light is a gun run with 12.7mm gatling gun, Medium gets you a full salvo of rockets, Heavy will produce either a ATGM or a 250kg bomb depending on the exact asset type (anti-tank or air-support).

9 minutes ago, NeoOhm said:

How wide do drones, depending on type  scan the sides of a linear pantern 

My prayers to the elder ones for enlightenment on this arcane subject remain unanswered.

In my experience they are utterly myopic.....Except when they aren't. 

I'll ping @MOS:96B2P here, because I know he studied the subject when building TOC, but I never discovered what he discovered (or didn't). 

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Sgt.Squarehead

[MOS:96B2P]

1 hour ago, NeoOhm said:

I wonder, what unit is better for spotting for arty, is it the FO team or is it the highest in command for that platoon etc?
Do they relay targeting info and get a better accuracy on arty?
Who should use the drone, and who should call in attack on the drones id on targets - i see that only the user of the drone can point the exact target.

 

1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I'll ping @MOS:96B2P here, because I know he studied the subject when building TOC, but I never discovered what he discovered (or didn't). 

Interesting topic.  Below is a thread where some of these issues were discussed.  IMO the Experience of the spotter and artillery are the most important.  Same for any UAV that might be involved.  In CMBS a command vehicle can also help with call times.  I have not tested for CMSF2 but I suspect it is the same.  

IIRC a JTAC can get a UAV on station quicker than an FO but, with all things equal (experience), I could not detect any difference in artillery accuracy between a JTAC and an FO.  With artillery in general an FO has quicker call times than a JTAC.   

A light Hellfire mission is two missiles.

A heavy Hellfire mission is four missiles.

Reference a linear pattern. The more experienced the UAV the better at observation & detection within the linear area. I don't know how far off the sides of the linear pattern a UAV observes.  However that's a good question.    In TOC the target vehicle controlled by the AI stayed on the linear road.  We were just trying to destroy it on the road (so within the pattern) before it reached a trigger and triggered another tactical situation.........  

 

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by MOS:96B2P

[NeoOhm]

As always - informative answers and no waiting.

So - if i have a "Gold" Bar Company commander in a Fire Support vehicle, i select that team to perform the arty attack?
Should i also get them to use the drone?
Air Controllers tend to be busy a bit longer during air attacks and they dont seem to need the line if sight to order attacks.

Will Air assets spot targets and spend ammo more effective if AC teams have drone visual or is that only best for single target point?

I have a feeling air manage themselves quite good.

So a light attack will not attack a heavy tank, it will focus on soft vehicles/buildings/ Inf, medium goes for light/APC buildings and heavy go for tanks buildings.

Is it a combo of target priority AND ammo use or do they use the right type of ammo depending on target - differens is how much they use and time spent over the AO?

One more thing, how can i stop my AT-Javelin dudes to spend Javelins on infantry - one sniper- let them pay for the ammo or set target arc circle on Armor ?

Ty for the link... will read soon, right now im about to get powned due to suspected enemy target reference point- a barrage with no warning, bad stop to rest after a quick.
 

[Oliver_88]

1 hour ago, NeoOhm said:

One more thing, how can i stop my AT-Javelin dudes to spend Javelins on infantry - one sniper- let them pay for the ammo or set target arc circle on Armor ?

Answered your own question there. Target Armor Arc.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

If you want to spot for artillery by drone, the drone controller has to be the one to call in the artillery AFAIK, again @MOS:96B2P would know more, I suspect.

[MOS:96B2P]

1 hour ago, NeoOhm said:

So a light attack will not attack a heavy tank, it will focus on soft vehicles/buildings/ Inf, medium goes for light/APC buildings and heavy go for tanks buildings.

The configuration of the aircraft (strafe, light, medium, etc.) refer to the ordinance the aircraft carry.  This varies some with the CM titles.  A generic way of thinking about it is light equals bullets and heavy equals big bombs.  Everything else falls somewhere in between.  If you order your light configured aircraft to target a tank it will target said tank with the light ordinance.  If you have the aircraft set to a large area target (700 meters) I'm not sure how the AI of the aircraft selects targets within that 700 meter area.  I've not tested but suspect it's a combination of soft factors and what it can actually spot.  Moving vehicles seem to draw a lot of attention.  Of course sometimes a friendly vehicle 100 meters outside the target area also draws attention .  Hate when that happens .      

  

6 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

If you want to spot for artillery by drone, the drone controller has to be the one to call in the artillery AFAIK, again @MOS:96B2P would know more, I suspect.

Depends.  Especially on the US side (maybe not so much for Ukraine?)  If a spotter has a satellite link, via PDA or vehicle, the spotter can call for artillery fire on any area observed by any friendly UAV.   

[A Canadian Cat]

12 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

13 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

f you want to spot for artillery by drone, the drone controller has to be the one to call in the artillery AFAIK, again @MOS:96B2P would know more, I suspect.

Depends.  Especially on the US side (maybe not so much for Ukraine?)  If a spotter has a satellite link, via PDA or vehicle, the spotter can call for artillery fire on any area observed by any friendly UAV. 

^^^ This is really cool to use for Blue.

For calling artillery I try to use an FO, especially the one in a dedicated observation vehicle, to use a drone. Then I use that FO to call precision artillery and you can use others (personally I use this CO mostly for this) to call non precision strikes that are observable by the drone. The reason for that is the FO gets the full spotting information from the drone and can therefore make calls that strike a vehicle. The CO gets '?' info from the drone which is plenty to call small - or big - circular or linear fire missions.

Rinse and repeat while there is still stuff moving and rounds to fire.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Strange, that's quite contrary to what I recall from my limited (outside of TOC resting) experience of Blue units in CM:BS.....I clearly need more practice. 

[NeoOhm]

Thank you for all the feedback - i would love a 800 page manual addressing the game mechanics.

[A Canadian Cat]

2 minutes ago, NeoOhm said:

Thank you for all the feedback - i would love a 800 page manual addressing the game mechanics.

Yeah. I think you are reading the closest thing to it but these forums are more like 40 000 pages.

[ctcharger]

How much precision can I expect?  I am using the Forward Observer that is controlling the drone and so far not good or at least not very reliable.  I am playing Blue in the scenario BSBP 01 Honor.  Should I just use a regular point mission instead because the time it takes me to get it done, leaves me exposed to artillery.

[A Canadian Cat]

9 hours ago, ctcharger said:

How much precision can I expect? 

How much precision do you want? I usually use three rounds of precision fire to take out an IFV and same to have a shot at a tank. Using that, most IFV s are taken out and tanks are at least damaged and frequently taken down.

Note that's my updated SOP and expectations since precision rounds were tweaked a while back.

[ctcharger]

Too be honest, I had no idea even such things existed in artillery form.  Probably explains why I see videos of people walking behind APCs or riding on top of them.  For tanks, I may try point area fire or wait until the helo shows up.  Tweaked must mean nerfed I am guessing.

[Michael Emrys]

2 hours ago, ctcharger said:

Tweaked must mean nerfed I am guessing.

In this case, I believe so.

BTW, on a different track, I think you may be using some words incorrectly and that might be affecting your perceptions. So just for the sake of clarity in our communications, if you don't already have this, a Precision shot uses a special guided round. I think you've got that. But also, when calling for a precision shot, the cursor is going to say something about point. Point is a very different animal from Area fire. If you are trying to line up a precision shot but end up designating an area, your shells are going to be falling all over that designated area, and maybe even somewhat outside it. You might want to give this section of the manual another look, going through the steps with manual in hand and checking the UI to make sure everything clicks.

HTH

Michael

[ctcharger]

I have been selecting a point target and then a precision attack which I believe does use the guided rounds.  I believe a point attack with a (not precision) choice will still be an area style attack but with a very small area.  I will double check as I go through it again however and I am looking through the manual also.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

12 hours ago, ctcharger said:

I have been selecting a point target and then a precision attack which I believe does use the guided rounds.  I believe a point attack with a (not precision) choice will still be an area style attack but with a very small area.  I will double check as I go through it again however and I am looking through the manual also.

That is correct AFAIK. 

[Michael Emrys]

13 hours ago, ctcharger said:

I believe a point attack with a (not precision) choice will still be an area style attack but with a very small area.

I have found that to be the case. If you run out of precision rounds, or you wish to conserve them, you can use this and set it to have several minutes of duration and you'll have a pretty good chance of hitting your target. I've used this for attacking enemy-ooccupied buildings, for instance.

Michael

[A Canadian Cat]

On 12/24/2018 at 8:21 AM, ctcharger said:

Tweaked must mean nerfed I am guessing.

Well needed implies tuned down below real life. At least to me.

I used tweaked because it was an adjustment. The US munitions were to accurate in game and the Russian ones were not accurate enough. So, this was fixed by a tweak

Edited December 25, 2018 by IanL
Typo

[NeoOhm]

I tested this alot now, and what i see is that 1 round is less accurate than 3 rounds of precision arty.
When firing 1 at the time it can take up to 5-6-7 rounds before you get a direct hit - i wait for the dust to settle before every shoot, and the arty has all green dots full.
When using a 3 shoot precision, at-least 2 rounds hits spot on and not often all 3 on the first fire mission.

[Michael Emrys]

3 hours ago, NeoOhm said:

When firing 1 at the time it can take up to 5-6-7 rounds before you get a direct hit...

That has been my experience. But it has also been my experience firing one round at a time that most of the time—65%-75%—the first round hits. So it's a bit of a toss up whether it is more important to get that one kill immediately or to conserve ammunition.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Postscript to the above: I was addressing the American 155mm; the 120mm mortar is a different story. Its rounds hit on target less than 50% of the time, so those I always fire two at a time, and often still run through their ammo very quickly. I have not played as the Russians, so cannot address their performance.

Michael

[ctcharger]

Didn't think about letting the dust settle, that makes sense.  I also need to read up on what the dots mean for artillery.  

[Howler]

27 minutes ago, ctcharger said:

I also need to read up on what the dots mean for artillery.  

Less than optimum rate of fire. Letting the tubes cool will turn them back to green.

[ctcharger]

Thanks!!!