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Sgt.Squarehead

Afghanistan - The Current Situation

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The Afghan Government lays out its conditions for peace:

https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2018/11/afghan-governments-negotiating-position-completely-at-odds-with-talibans.php

Quote

• The Constitutional rights and obligations, of all citizens, especially women, are ensured.

• The Constitution is accepted, or amendments proposed through the constitutional provision.

• The Afghan National Defense and Security Forces and civil service function according to law.

• No armed groups with ties to transnational terrorist networks or transnational criminal organizations, or with ties to state/non-state actors, seeking influence in Afghanistan will be allowed to join the political process.

The Taliban Responds:

https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2018/11/taliban-calls-afghan-government-impotent-says-negotiating-with-it-is-a-waste-of-time.php

Quote

The Taliban yet again belittled the Afghan government as a “powerless and foreign imposed” regime that is unworthy of sitting down at a negotiating table.

 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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We need to just GTFO.

Arent we really trying to (like much of the middle east) putting a nation state construct on a tribal society that when left to their own devices happily kill eachother usually and generally only agree on one thing (again like... All of the mideast tbh) that the only people they like killing more than EACHOTHER is killing Americans. 

Sorry but its been 18 damn years. Leave.

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And yes the resultant vacuum may cause terrorist problems.. Of course we.ve been hammering the local male population almost 2 decades there. Id say theres more threat of

Terrorists springing from new enclaves (i.e. countries in chaos. Yemen. Syria. Iraq. Etc ad nauseum)

Iran sponsoring TF out of Shiite terrorist groups. 

Saudi Arabia countinuing to be the shadiest ppl in the world IMO besixes my all time favorite for two faced perfidy - Pakistan.

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Truth to be told, you should never have gone in.....Taliban offered to hand Osama Bin Laden over to US authorities long before 9/11, all they asked was that the US supply evidence to support their accusations and that he be tried in a neutral country.....The US refused.  :mellow:

What is it with you people and evidence?  People will start to think you are making things up!  :lol:

 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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11 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

What is it with you people and evidence?

*sigh*

The problem is the maniacal distrust of foreign authority of any kind. US officials flatly refuse to surrender any sovereignty of any kind (almost). This goes back beyond the beginnings of the Atomic Era. Following the end of WW II there was a strong international move—including most of the key scientists who worked on the Manhattan Project—to place all nuclear weapons under the control of the United Nations. The US, wanting to maintain its monopoly on such weapons, refused. This fed distrust and virtually reduced the UN to a debating society.

This is a very abbreviated and over-simplified account of the events in question, but it should give some sense of the flow of events.

Michael

Edited by Michael Emrys

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11 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Truth to be told, you should never have gone in.....Taliban offered to hand Osama Bin Laden over to US authorities long before 9/11, all they asked was that the US supply evidence to support their accusations and that he be tried in a neutral country.....The US refused.  :mellow:

What is it with you people and evidence?  People will start to think you are making things up!  :lol:

 

Not quite - The Taliban offered to turn him over to an Islamic country to be tried under their rules. Not quite the same as a "neutral" country.  :P Considering how long our "ally" Pakistan harbored him that really was never an option.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-wont-turn-over-bin-laden/

Synopsis from Wikipedia-   The United States requested the Taliban to shut down all al-Qaeda bases in Afghanistan, open them to inspection and turn over Osama bin Laden. The Taliban refused all these requests. Instead they offered to extradite Osama bin Laden to an Islamic country, for trial under Islamic law, if the United States presented evidence of his guilt.[99] The Taliban had previously refused to extradite bin Laden to the United States, or prosecute him, after he was indicted by the US federal courts for involvement in the 1998 United States embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania.[100] The Taliban deemed eyewitness testimony and satellite phone call recordings entered in the public record in February 2001 during a trial as insufficient grounds to extradite bin Laden for his involvement in the bombings.

 

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What ^ he said. TheTalibanwasnt ever going to cooperate they just paid lip service with anunacceptable counteroffer.

Whats with YOUR people and the truth is more like it

MH17

Tugboat VBIEDs 

Katyn

Revionism justifying allying with Hitler( or denying it)

I could go on and on. We had a hell of a lot of a better reason to go in there than you guys did before what your leader terms 'the greatest tragedy of the 20th century' (fall of communism)

 

And after all you guys invaded Chechnya twice, and the second time your casus belli is VERY SUSPECT. I.e. Theres actual credible info out there it was an FSB false flag op. Nevermind the Ukraine stuff now. People may think we.re starting to make stuff up, and over here we KNOW our President does it about 5 to 7 times daily, but the whole world knows Russia/Soviet Union both make almost everything up. Even the truth is layered with lies.

And no its not comparavle to the 3k deaths and seeing airliners fly into national landmarks on live TV. Ive always asserted the "9/11 was an inside job' crowd are idiots and for one that operation was too BIG for a false flag and never would have needed to be that big. Not to mention if it was a false flag it would have been putting a lot of the powers that beat heavy risk.(Pentagon?)

Regardless OBLs dead and this isnt going to be won. Time to come home IMO.

Edited by Sublime

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Stop it. This will be another closed thread with this kind of back and forth. Tone it down unless you really don’t want to be able to have a thread open. You can disagree with @Sgt.Squareheadwithout flaming him.  Heck I don’t agree with him either but can keep it civil. And who is “you guys”. I don’t think he is Russian. 😎

Edited by sburke

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Shoot I dont know, he said whats "your guys" problem with the truth and so I responded in kind. Since he was advocating for them so hard I figured he was Russian ( also since hes always on their side in other threads )

Sorry not sorry.

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Ah. Well his frequent pro russian stances, arguing with the ukrainians here, and then the you guys thing just squarely put him as a russian in my eyes.

I stand by my points and views though. I understand and felt the common sentiment from 9/11 - any government with the capability would have had to do something to avenge something like that. Afghanistan under the Taliban went out of its way to be obtuse and almost happy to be ignorant at a time the whole world was sympathetic to what happened and bin Laden released a tape gloating he had done it. They squarely put those crosshairs on their nation. Al Qaeda had to be destroyed and in my opinion bin Ladens head was the very least that could be done in response to that savage and cowardly act in 2001.

I do feel the US government DID take advantage of the gigantic surge of patriotism, nationalism, support for the military, combined in a heady mix with fear and the dawning of a new age evident in all these little ways that affected all Americans - sweeping changes in law enforcement powers and searches especially travelling, news went from a evening ritual to tickers on the bottom of the screen and 24 hr networks.  Unfortunately I feel the government wasnt satisfied with Afghanistan and took advantage and invaded Iraq which was a huge mistake IMO. Afghanistan I feel we.ve made our point and done a lot of damage. 

Im very thankful some members of the American government finally seem to have developed some backbone and are unwilling to deal with odious types of people. (such as those who may be party to murder) hopefully now we can stop squandering blood and treasure in Afghanistan and let our military and perhaps country heal. Lord knows we need it.

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On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:16 PM, Sublime said:

Sorry not sorry.

Hmmmm.....TBH I didn't really need to make the 'Shouldn't have gone in' comment, but as this idiotic never-ending conflict has cost the lives of people close to me, I'm not terribly sorry that I said it either TBH. 

This by the way is exactly why I won't succumb to US/Ukrainian propaganda on Russia.....If the US drags the UK into a war with those guys there will be no Britain (or America, or Russia for that matter).  :mellow:

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 4:06 PM, Michael Emrys said:

He's British. Which doesn't preclude him from being a bit Bolshy, you know.

Yes, I'm British, Bolshy and proud of it too!  ;)

If that's all cleared up, we can get back to the news:

https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2018/12/taliban-shadow-governor-for-helmand-killed-in-airstrike.php

 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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the last thing I want at all is a war between the US and Russia we agree on that.  Or even UK vs Russia because the US will go to the UKs side.  Im of the opinion itll end in a WMD holocaust.  I dont say thermonuclear - I think the nukes would really do us all in but who knows? Once theyre off so goes the Chem and Bio as well. I dont want to argue because I actually respect your posting history and your basic rights to opinion but its very ironic you say "US drags UK into x war" since the US has at best 'dragged' Britain to send a corps IIRC in desert storm and a few divisions at best in OIF OEF.  Thats not peanuts of course, especially not the poor guys not coming home.  Of course you can contrast this with evidence MI6 fabricated false evidence to drag the US into WW2, Churchill openly said he'd do anything to get America in, and we came to UK aid for the second time in the second greatest war of all time.  And with millions of men and a staggering amount of goods and weapons that the UK only finished repaying in .. what 2016?  And DONT get me wrong - its forever to the UKs credit they stood alone after France, I just think its a bit rich to say the US 'drags' the British into a war.  The British refused to fight in Vietnam.  They could always refuse to fight.  However I think since both of our countries basically acknowledge we're like the nation equivalent to family we're pretty much tied together in almost all military endeavors and especially serious ones and I wouldnt have it any other way with any other nation and commonwealth nations affiliated with said nation instead of Britain.

Edited by Sublime

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2 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Bolshy and proud of it too!  ;)

Well, at least that explains your fawning admiration for a bunch of murderous commie thugs. 

Edited by LukeFF

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Hardly fawning admiration, I just have massive respect for any nation that can take 25-30 million casualties and still kick the living **** out of their aggressor.  :mellow:

You really wanna take those guys on?   :rolleyes:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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6 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

You really wanna take those guys on?

Nope. And we have studiously avoided doing so in any big way for the last 70 years. Which is largely due to the cautious pursuit by both countries and their leaders of what were admittedly conflicting policy goals...most of the time. A history I fervently hope will continue.

Michael

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On 12/10/2018 at 9:46 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Hardly fawning admiration, I just have massive respect for any nation that can take 25-30 million casualties and still kick the living **** out of their aggressor.  :mellow:

Yeah, call me weird, but I have zero respect for governments that have murdered and imprisoned countless millions without batting an eyelash. 

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7 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Yeah, call me weird, but I have zero respect for governments that have murdered and imprisoned countless millions without batting an eyelash.

I feel exactly the same.  ;)

If you have noting to contribute to this thread on the subject of Afghanistan, kindly stay out of it.  :mellow:

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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On 12/10/2018 at 4:45 PM, LukeFF said:

...a bunch of murderous commie thugs.

They may be murderous thugs—and what major country in the world is without them?—but I daresay that the current Russian leadership has few genuine commies left. They are all practicing capitalist greed heads these days, just like our own murderous thugs.

Michael

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I think the Russian government is full of pragmatists who will do anything to keep their dynastys going.

A little bizarre sidenote but Russian politics made a lot more sense to me after dozens of hours in CK2 because the games all about dynastys and I feel thats the current Russian mindset of their elite.

That said I DEFINITELY note a sense of definite nostalgia for the USSR with Putin and other select Russian statesmen. After all he called the collapse of communism the worst disaster of the 20th century. ( im not even touching that its so laughable, plus he seems to forget he.d be retired living in a crappy apt somewhere probably if the USSR hadnt fallen)

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