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SchnelleMeyer

10 Myths about Afghanistan article

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I know i can be a bit blunt at times. I dont think we will ever agree on these things, but i hope there are no hard feelings here. Looking at you @Combatintman and @MOS:96B2P, you guys seem to be from a totally different camp ;) 

I hope you guys dont hate me to the death now.

 

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4 hours ago, Pandur said:

I know i can be a bit blunt at times. I dont think we will ever agree on these things, but i hope there are no hard feelings here. Looking at you @Combatintman and @MOS:96B2P, you guys seem to be from a totally different camp ;) 

I hope you guys dont hate me to the death now.

 

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to have disagreed with.  I generally try to stay away from these threads because they never end well - as you saw I had a bit of a blow up with @Aragorn2002 which was pretty unnecessary on my part and I am glad that we have made our peace.

As you will have seen in that exchange of posts - I am no stranger to Afghanistan but like all outsiders I am a stranger to Afghanistan. Things to consider might be:

1. Who decides what the 10 myths are?

2. How relevant are they to the people who have to carve their lives out there?

3. How much clout do the opinions of people on a forum for a wargame really matter?

4. Will debating said things change much?

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On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 3:45 AM, Pandur said:

 

It has, all the natural resources, and afghanistan has plenty, are going to the west now. In the eyes of the west, that is a success. Someone is making big big money by stealing their stuff. The war? Who cares, that is just a side show to keep the money rolling in.

not to stir the pot again, but this is not necessarily true.  China has shown a lot of interest in getting involved with exploiting Afghanistan's resources.

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Hey sburke,

Does it make it better if china does it too? You know i dont really care who does it, its the fact that it is being done. The country is too poor to exploit its resources but the rich geological background of afghanistan means its an unopened treasure chest.

From wikipedia ->

 Afghanistan has over 1400 mineral fields,[1][2][3] containing barite, chromite, coal, copper, gold, iron ore, lead, natural gas, petroleum, precious and semi-precious stones, salt, sulfur, talc, and zinc, among many other minerals.[1][4] Gemstones include high-quality emerald, lapis lazuli, red garnet and ruby. According to a joint study by The Pentagon and the United States Geological Survey, Afghanistan has an estimated US$3 trillion[5] of untapped minerals.

 

Now the refugees tell me, america make shooting around the mine(s), when everyone is fled they move in. 2 week later there is a big fence around the mine and the resources are stolen and go "somewhere else" but no longer to afghanistan. That is reality, they have seen it, that is not the "fox news" media version where this is a country full of terrorists and each and every one is out to get america.

So china wants a piece of the cake now, i am not surprised, its  large cake after all. I am sure they will find their place there like the others did. It probably makes this place more sane with china there.

Edited by Pandur

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13 hours ago, Pandur said:

Now the refugees tell me, america make shooting around the mine(s), when everyone is fled they move in. 2 week later there is a big fence around the mine and the resources are stolen and go "somewhere else" but no longer to afghanistan. That is reality, they have seen it,

Yeah, color me skeptical about that sort of report. People said the same sort of thing about Iraq ("blood for oil!!!!!!!). If that sort of thing has really been going on, someone would have reported it by now. 

Edited by LukeFF

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18 hours ago, Pandur said:

Hey sburke,

Does it make it better if china does it too? You know i dont really care who does it, its the fact that it is being done. The country is too poor to exploit its resources but the rich geological background of afghanistan means its an unopened treasure chest.

I don't disagree with that but your statement was the west waged the war to get the resources.  Saying China is going after those resources kind of undermines blaming the west and citing it's motivation.  So what exactly is it that you are getting at?  Exploitation of a country's resources or the war in Afghanistan?  The two are not necessarily one and the same.

The same is happening in many locations, multiple African nations, Latin America and it isn't one country doing it.  It is pretty much all the countries with the economies that have a resource demand.  Apple makes iPhones, they are made in China.  iPhones require a lot of scarce materials, China goes looking for those materials.  Do you own an iPhone?  You are part of the problem. (and not just iPhones, all smart phones, electric cars, etc etc)

Are you not in fact part of the problem?

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Like in every conflict there are many factors that complicate matters. I've already mentioned the atmosphere of corruption, which made billions of western help disappear into thin air. Internal division (between Pashtoe and Tadzjik for instance), the destructive influence of countries like Pakistan, Russia and Iran, the stubborn reluctance of the average Afghan to accept foreign (especially non-moslim) presence and advice, Western naivity and indecision,  the greed of (not only western!) companies to share in the booty are some ot the other factors. Compared to Afghanistan to make an end to the endless conflict in Northern Ireland was a breeze. 

I've heard the argument about the West stealing Afghan resources before and from many people, mostly Afghans. There is some truth in it, but it originates mostly from frustration, fake news from the usual sources and reluctance to admit that if you put two Afghans from different backgrounds together you've got the making of a civil war. They are great and proud people, but not the easiest to deal with.

Every fair minded Afghan will confirm the above. It is a huge tragedy and especially the Afghan women and children deserve better.

Edited by Aragorn2002

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