PENALTIES RE OPTIONAL REINFORCEMENTS

[Erwin]

Many have mentioned how good it would be to have access to optional reinforcements that would cost victory points to activate - a feature that does not currently exist in CM2.

Would this work(?):

1)  Designer places reinforcements (inf and/or vehicles) located in a "fort"-like building/compound with no exits or windows.

2)  Designer makes the fort structures "PRESERVE OBJECTIVES" with the highest victory point penalties for damage.

3)  Provide the player with engineers and demo charges capable of opening up the fort to allow the reinforcements to exit onto the playable map.

4)  Ideally, the destruction of the structures in order to liberate the reinforcements will significantly reduce the player's victory level.

Note that AFV crews would have to be kept in separate buildings with no exits so that the crews would have to be blasted out in order to occupy their AFV's so that reinforcement AFV's could not simply blast their way out.

This gives the player a choice between using engineer charges for other purposes in a scenario or keeping them in reserve so as to access the optional reinforcements.

Hope this may work...

 

[MOS:96B2P]

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

Many have mentioned how good it would be to have access to optional reinforcements that would cost victory points to activate 

Using the spot objective will accomplish the same thing.  A player has "extra" units in a safe location out of sight.  Say a platoon of infantry and a platoon of tanks.  These two extra platoons are spot objectives for the OpFor.  The infantry platoon is worth 100 VPs and the tanks platoon is worth 200 VPs.  If the player decides to use the extra units they will be spotted (with very few exceptions, I tested this) when they enter the fight and cost the player victory points.  If the player chooses not to use them or only use some the cost in VPs will change accordingly. 

I also tested something along the lines of what you suggest above but it works a little different.  Both methods are included in the scenario Coup de'tat.  

[Bulletpoint]

Creative stuff, but:

1: They are cumbersome Rube Goldberg-methods that reduce immersion

2: It doesn't work for artillery or air support as reinforcements

3: It won't be possible to apply to quick battles. Someone had the good idea that forces could be purchased at a discount in quick battles if chosen as reinforcements - the longer the wait, the bigger the discount.

[Erwin]

46 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

They are cumbersome Rube Goldberg-methods that reduce immersion

Of course, we have no other option - well... MOS's plan is xnt.  His idea is much better (again goddammit!).  We've just never seen anyone (yet) use that concept.  Should make a lot of players happy as it would make the most difficult scenarios more winnable and FUN (able to mitigate early catastrophic losses) - at the cost of one or more victory levels.

[MOS:96B2P]

34 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Creative stuff, but:

1: They are cumbersome Rube Goldberg-methods that reduce immersion

2: It doesn't work for artillery or air support as reinforcements

3: It won't be possible to apply to quick battles. Someone had the good idea that forces could be purchased at a discount in quick battles if chosen as reinforcements - the longer the wait, the bigger the discount.

1) I had to google Rube Goldberg-method .  Learn something new everyday.    Depending how it is implemented in a scenario it might reduce immersion for some players.  Won't ever make them all happy.  I think the spot objective method, explained above, works very well.  Example: 20 minutes into the scenario you receive a platoon of tanks as reinforcements in your setup zone.  You know from the briefing this platoon is a 100 VP Spot Objective for the OpFor.  It is the players choice to use them or not.  Admittedly the other method, releasing units that are held in some fashion is more ............ what's that phrase........."Rube Goldberg" ......... and takes some work to pull off.  And of course not everyone will be happy with it........... 

2) True, the spot method will not work for artillery.  I never tried it with aircraft.  Can they be "spotted" as they make a bombing run? 

3) The Quick Battle idea you mentioned above sounds cool ................ maybe CM3.     

[AlexUK]

How about, if a designer wants, the player gets s message during the game - 'send for re-inforcements?'. If they answer yes, the reinforcements appear at a later stage in the game (spot VPs as described could be added). 

[MOS:96B2P]

@Erwin your basic idea of having a reinforcement "released" can also work.  In the CMSF2 scenario Coup de' tat there are similar situations.   

An example from the scenario:  

US Consulate Annex: The US Consulate Annex is located on the south edge of the Area of Operations (AO) (Grid: xxxxxxxx).  It is a base with several teams of Special Forces.  These teams have a mission to locate Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs).  Chemical/biological WMDs are believed to have been possessed by the Abbudinian National Army prior to the civil war.  Western powers want to ensure these weapons do not fall into the hands of terrorists.  If the rebels locate evidence of WMDs the Special Forces (SF) teams will be made available to work with rebel forces.  The SF teams will only be made available if evidence of WMDs are discovered.  HUMINT sources may provide assistance with locating the evidence.  The SF teams are currently out on a mission but will return to the Annex at 0430hrs.

Game mechanics: Teams of BluFor SF dudes appear in the annex at 0430hrs (They could also be there from setup.  It doesn't matter)  The annex as two perimeters.  The SF dudes are the inner perimeter with no LOS to the outside.  RedFor local military/hired militia etc. hold the outer perimeter (They are helping to guard the annex).  The outer perimeter force has a few T-55 tanks making it impractical to try to break into or out of the annex.  The gate of the annex is also blocked by barbwire.  The SF dudes have wheeled vehicles and no demo charges. 

If the rebels locate evidence of WMD they will also hit a trigger.  This triggers the outer perimeter security force to head for an RedFor exit zone.  On the way to the exit zone a T-55 tank crushes the barbwire releasing the SF teams.  Now the rebel player can use the SF teams.  

I tested this in CMBS and it works.  Just waiting for CMSF2 to be released so I can move a modified version of @LongLeftFlank Ramadi map from CMSF1 into CMSF2 and finish everything.             

[Erwin]

Bloody brilliant, mate!!