Newbie DAR/AAR: ncc1701e vs JoMc67D

[ncc1701e]

I know this is not a good moment. All the eyes are on the Syrian front now with the release of CMSF2 demo. Anyhow, here is our second game with @JoMc67.

The scenario is named Meet Small Village QB-287.btt. This is again a meeting engagement with two objectives that are closed to each other. Both sides is having a Reinforced Infantry Platoon to start with. But, this time we have decided to increase the scenario's duration to 20 minutes plus 5 minutes extra possible.

Also, we have changed a little bit our house rules as follow:

1. No Pre-Planned Arty (or Area-Fire from Ground Units) on Turn 1 of a Meeting Engagement, or from Defender. Player will need to Call-In Arty normally (Attacker in Attack/Defense Games are exempt and can use Pre-Planned Arty).
2. Players will let the Computer AI choose what Targets to shoot at (player can't choose Targets, but can still use 'Area-Fire'). Player can still use Smoke at anytime and any Location on the Map.  
3. Units can check LOF (line of Fire, and thus Area-Fire) at two locations per turn...Once before Movement (exact location of Unit at beginning of turn), and at the  first Waypoint (doesn't matter how short or long the Waypoint is)...However, if you check LOF at that Waypoint, then you must keep that Waypoint w/o any alteration (can't delete or change it until next turn).
4. Area-Fire has to be roughly within 2x Action-Spots (360 degrees) to the Enemy Unit/Icon (this includes Direct HE fire from Onboard Arty...Smoke can still be anywhere on map)...Arty called in by an HQ or FO is exampt and can be conducted anywhere on the Map.
5. Players Can't click on Enemy Icons or Units during a Game.
6. Vehicle Smoke Dischargers (not Smoke Shells) is controlled by the Computer AI, and not by the Player.

This will be a DAR hoping to receive advices from the readers and applies them during the battle. 

Edited October 21, 2018 by ncc1701e

[JoMac]

Your Title should have read:  Newbie DAR\AAR 2: ncc1701e vs JoMc67...Oh, and what's with this JoMc67D thingy, lol.

I'm sure you will get good and sound advice from the BF Forum members. Don't forget to use the 'Mods' I have sent you...I want to see them in your DAR\AAR Screenshots.

Anyways, I will not visit here again until Games End.

Good Luck and Good Gaming :-)

Joe

Edited October 22, 2018 by JoMc67

[ncc1701e]

18 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

Your Title should have read:  Newbie DAR\AAR 2: ncc1701e vs JoMc67...Oh, and what's with this JoMc67D thingy, lol

Typo, my mistake sorry...

18 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

Don't forget to use the 'Mods' I have sent you...I want to see them in your DAR\AAR Screenshots

Yes, @JoMc67 kindly send me a compilation of all the mods he is using. You will see them in the screenshots of course.

18 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

Anyways, I will not visit here again until Games End

Yes, what are doing here !? 

18 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

Good Luck and Good Gaming 

Same to you

[ncc1701e]

MISSION

This is a meeting engagement. My mission is simple, my main goal is to hold the two objectives located in my zone.

ENEMY

Intel is indicating that I am facing troops from Commonwealth most probably a Reinforced Infantry Platoon followed by one armored car at turn 10.

TERRAIN

The two objectives are two small towns separated by a small farm in the middle. The two towns are linked together by a road. A ridge follows roughly the path of the road. This allows my setup zone and the enemy setup zone on the other side to be hidden from each other when the battle starts.

TROOPS

At my disposal, I have a Reinforced Infantry Platoon almost all men are "green" soldiers. I am expecting an armored car in 10 minutes.

TIME

I have really 20 minutes (this time) to reach both objectives plus 5 minutes extra possible.

[domfluff]

Would want more information, but allow me to blunder into an uninformed opinion. 

Those objectives look too widely spaced to contest with one platoon, and there's also no easy way to deny the enemy manoeuvre and therefore gain an advantage in mobility), since the map appears symmetrically split with that ridge line.

Therefore my basic scheme would be to move the platoon to take the more valuable objective (** usually indicate VP), expecting a close range firefight on that objective.

That will leave a few possible scenarios:

- Your opponent will do the same, and you'll slug it out at close range (you should have an advantage here)
- Your opponent will do the opposite, and you'll defend the more valuable objective.
- Your opponent will spread out, and you'll defeat them in detail.

You don't have the mobility or fires to do much that's more complex than that - advancing through the (possibly) covered approach on your right and taking that town seems as good a plan as any.

[ncc1701e]

ENEMY AVENUES OF APPROACH

Studying carefully the map, I agree with @domfluff. Enemy will advance to contact on one of two objectives or both. I bet that the enemy will not split its forces and will choose one objective only. I have just to guess which one.

AOA1 (Orange axis)

The orange axis is the best approach axis in my opinion. Here is the view of AOA1 from the enemy side on the map. Two houses to hide on the left plus a wood on the right. I also think this is the best axis for another reason I will detail later in a little terrain analysis.

AOA2 (Green axis)

The green axis has the advantage to be masked by the ridge as well as by woods. It could be perfectly used as well.

AOA3 (Red)

From my point of view, the terrain is too opened in the middle to utilize it as an avenue of approach. For this reason, I do not consider it as a possible approach.

[ncc1701e]

TERRAIN ANALYSIS (1/2)

The two objectives are separated by this little farm along the road.

Objective number one is having more houses than objective number two. It is also interesting to notice that objective number one is having the only two-story building of the whole map.

Objective one's aerial view:

Objective two's aerial view:

[ncc1701e]

TERRAIN ANALYSIS (2/2)

And this is where it becomes interesting. If you are looking at objective number two from objective number one, one could notice that objective number one is a little higher than number two.

Also, looking at the house facades, it is important to see that approaching objective number two from objective number one, there are absolutely no windows in objective number two that can covered the route and, as such, a potential avenue of approach using the road to go from objective number one to objective number two.

On the other hand, the reverse is not true. Looking at objective number one from objective number two, there are plenty of windows to watch and potentially suppress the road with direct fire.

I do have my own conclusion. Objective number one has two main advantages compared to the other one plus a two-story building. This is the one I will select as my priority target. And, if the enemy is doing the same terrain analysis, I guess he will also choose objective number one. This is explaining my preference over AOA1 (Orange axis) as the preferred enemy avenue of approach.

Edited October 23, 2018 by ncc1701e

[ncc1701e]

MY PLAN AND MY INITIAL MOVES

Learning my lesson from the previous AAR, I will not split my forces. I will move to contact two squads, the LMG team and the scout team to gain the maximum intel possible on the enemy positions and moves.

One squad, the panzerschreck team and the platoon HQ will remain in reserve at the beginning. I will move them as the situation develops.

[ncc1701e]

MINUTE 1

And, this is it. Two squads are scrambling toward objective number one.

The scout team is going in advance, leapfrogging.

Edited October 23, 2018 by ncc1701e

[ncc1701e]

MINUTE 2

Applying what I have read on @Bil Hardenberger's blog (http://battledrill.blogspot.com/2015/03/rifle-platoon-leader-platoon-scouts.html), I am moving a scout team to contact with the rest of the squad behind.

The overall situation at the end of the turn. The progression is slowly on going. I am taking my time not rushing toward the houses. Perhaps it will be a mistake, will see. So far, I have no sign of the enemy.

[ncc1701e]

MINUTE 3

The A team of third squad is arriving at the edge of the woods. First houses of objective one is in sight.

The scout team is also in the area. Advancing carefully toward the houses.

The rest of the third squad are catching up.

So far, there is still no contact with the enemy. I have just send my orders to @JoMc67 for next turn. Now, this is really a DAR. Any advice for next turns, guys? Any comment on my above analysis?

Edited October 23, 2018 by ncc1701e

[domfluff]

In general, my scouts in a german formation tend to be whole teams - if you split off a scout team, you end up with an unsplittable six man squad with one or two MG's, which severely limits your options - and your number one priority is maintaining as much freedom of movement (and available options) as possible. There are exceptions, but they're generally in a final push to contact - if I'm trying to get eyes-on to a known enemy, and want to maintain as stealthy an approach as possible, then I'll split off a German scout team.

Whether to rush is a common problem with meeting engagements, and is an issue with wargaming those scenarios in general - ME tend to be non-historical, and the "rush to the centre" mentality is one that's seen far more commonly in gaming than it ever was in reality. It's just one of those things. If your opponent has charged into the centre, you might have a bad time - this is partly an issue with the time limit, and partly with the objectives.

I'm (again, with full expectation of being badly wrong) expecting him to have taken the other objective by now, and for this to be mostly a stand-off over open ground. That means that the decisive point will be whose armoured car gets destroyed first - which is a fight you should be equipped to win. If so, then you should be able to mop up fairly safely from outside PIAT range and win a minor victory.

[Hardradi]

Nice terrain analysis. Look forward to seeing how it works out.

 

 

[Oliver_88]

I consider another benefit to the orange axis compared to the green/red to be the existence of the road. You have not stated what the initial ground conditions are but from the images does at least seem to be raining. So that road could maybe be some use for the armoured car that he is going to be reinforced with. I am thinking about the possible risk of bogging that asset down when going via the red or green axis instead.

Does not appear as though you have any road routes for when you are reinforced with yours?

Edited October 24, 2018 by Oliver_88

[ncc1701e]

5 hours ago, Oliver_88 said:

I consider another benefit to the orange axis compared to the green/red to be the existence of the road. You have not stated what the initial ground conditions are but from the images does at least seem to be raining. So that road could maybe be some use for the armoured car that he is going to be reinforced with. I am thinking about the possible risk of bogging that asset down when going via the red or green axis instead.

Does not appear as though you have any road routes for when you are reinforced with yours?

Indeed, you are completely right. I have forgotten the road. Still learning...  On my side, I have no roads at all. Hope my armored car won't face a problem.

It is raining but the briefing is empty. Is there any way to check the ground conditions while the game is on going?

[domfluff]

Yup, under "menus" there's a button for "conditions" - that'll give you wind direction, weather, ground state, electronic warfare, whatever is appropriate.

[ncc1701e]

MINUTE 4

My scout team is in position actively searching for the enemy.

A second squad is arriving at the edge of the woods. Its two men scout team opening the way. I am planning to merge them next turn to create two teams.

The last squad is still in reserve but I will move them a little forward to be ready for supporting the others.

Here is the overall situation of my troops.

Contact! The enemy has been spotted by my scout team just near the end of this turn. I expect the first shots next turn.

[Bil Hardenberger]

You are doing a fine job...  it's nice to see you doing some effective scouting.  How many scout teams do you have out front?  

Bil

[Bil Hardenberger]

Upon reading a little closer, it appears like you are using one two-man scout team.  A bit of advice.. scouting is most effective using a split squad, each alternating movement, so you always have one team stopped and listening, also if they get into trouble, a full squad can get out of it easier than a two-man team.  I almost never use two-man scout teams... I'm pretty sure that I cover this on my blog. 

Otherwise I appreciate how thoughtful you are being with your tactics in this game, scouting, maintaining a reserve, I'm so proud  [sniff].  I won't give any advice while the game is ongoing., but I am watching and reading.

Bil

[ncc1701e]

1 hour ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

Otherwise I appreciate how thoughtful you are being with your tactics in this game, scouting, maintaining a reserve, I'm so proud  [sniff].  I won't give any advice while the game is ongoing., but I am watching and reading

Thank you. In fact, I try to think as if it was real life and that I could lose it.

2 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

it's nice to see you doing some effective scouting.  How many scout teams do you have out front?  

Only two - there is a specific scout team and a two-man team from one squad.

1 hour ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

Upon reading a little closer, it appears like you are using one two-man scout team.  A bit of advice.. scouting is most effective using a split squad, each alternating movement, so you always have one team stopped and listening, also if they get into trouble, a full squad can get out of it easier than a two-man team.  I almost never use two-man scout teams... I'm pretty sure that I cover this on my blog.

Yes it is cover in your blog. In fact, as you can read above in minute 3's report, the third squad has been splitted into two teams and I am using the bounding overwatch technique with them as described here: http://battledrill.blogspot.com/2013/08/bounding-overwatch-alternating-this.html

I am experimenting the two methods. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by ncc1701e

[ncc1701e]

4 hours ago, domfluff said:

Yup, under "menus" there's a button for "conditions" - that'll give you wind direction, weather, ground state, electronic warfare, whatever is appropriate.

Here are the conditions for this scenario:

[ncc1701e]

On 10/23/2018 at 12:31 AM, domfluff said:

Therefore my basic scheme would be to move the platoon to take the more valuable objective (** usually indicate VP), expecting a close range firefight on that objective.

Oh and for the record, since the briefing is empty, I have fired up the editor to find out that:

• objective * worth 50 points
• objective ** worth 25 points

So everything is fine, I am going to the most valuable one.

[domfluff]

Ha, interesting. Yeah, happy with that plan.

[Bulletpoint]

21 hours ago, Bil Hardenberger said:

I almost never use two-man scout teams... I'm pretty sure that I cover this on my blog. 

Did you change opinion on this? On your blog, you wrote:

Quote

Leading the platoon on the approach march should be one or more scout teams.  I will put as many eyes forward as possible when advancing to contact, and if necessary also to the flank or flanks.  The more scout teams you have leading your main formation the better chance you have in uncovering the enemy dispositions and preventing surprise encounters.  I will often use up to a third of my force in the scout role, for a platoon that would be either one complete squad broken down into teams, or three two man scout teams, one from each squad.

Or maybe it's more that when you play the US side, you split off the small scout teams (because they can divide in three teams), and with the Germans you more often split half and half (because they can usually only divide in two teams)?