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L0ckAndL0ad

CV90 bells and whistles

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Hello everyone!

One of my favorite vehicles in CMSF was CV90. There's little info, but maybe somebody else knows... ( @Artkin maybe?)

The vehicle in the game is CV9035NL with Bushmaster III 35/50 gun. Does it have airburst-capable rounds IRL? And were they available in CMSF timeframe (2008)? I remember reading about this back in CMSF1 days, but now I can't find it.

And how does it really compare in defensive qualities and features compared to other IFVs? Both in terms of armor, passive measures and active. APS integration (Iron Fist), from what I've read so far, is being talked about since 2016 only.. So outside  of CMSF timeframe.

Are there any other interesting things about this vehicle maybe?

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The only thing I personally dug up with google is this article

http://fighting-vehicles.com/cv9035/

Which talks about Mk3 model (I suppose that's the CV9035NL we have in the game) in terms of the following game related features:

  • SAAB soft-kill APS
  • programmable ammo
Quote

The Cv9035 Mk3 differs and can be identified by a number of changes:

1. New 35mm main gun
2. Frontal armor modifications
3. New SAAB Active Protection System (soft)
4. Additional storage box
5. Changes to the rear of the turret

Quote

The CV9035 incorporates a Munition Programmer for Air Burst Munition and has a target-driven gunner Man Machine Interface (MMI). The Fire Control System  autonomously sets:

• The type of ammunition
• Lead – and super elevation angles
• Fuse setting – air burst, impact or delayed detonation
• Burst – Dispersion patterns

The question is.. if true, what year does this correspond to?

Edited by L0ckAndL0ad

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The website of the Dutch ministry of defense: https://www.defensie.nl/onderwerpen/materieel/voertuigen/combat-vehicle-90

"De CV9035NL is sinds december 2008 geleidelijk ingestroomd en vervangt de infanterie- en commandovoeringsversies van de YPR". Translated: The CV9035NL has been gradually introduced from december 2008 and replaces the infantry and command versions of the YPR.

 

Edited by Lethaface

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12 minutes ago, rocketman said:

Yep! 

From your links:

Quote

• Ammunition programmer for Air Burst Munitions integrated in FCS

Quote

• Laser warning receivers integrated with smoke grenade launchers and gun alignment to threat through Hägglunds Defensive Aid Suite (DAS) software

I've already spotted what I think are Laser Warning Receivers:

D94zQr8DmdALHCFfOPB27C3vOceKNz969WJa2wwY

 

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Well, with some further googling, I came up with a solid confirmation.

Here's pdf file from 2005 describing CV9035NL specifically which confirms both of my suspicions - the Dutch CV9035NLs that were built in 2008 had airburst and LWR features built in.

http://www.limburgsejagers.nl/nieuws/42alg_200504_05.pdf

The original is in... Dutch? I dunno for sure, but I gave it to Google Translate and received the following:

Page 3 (written "12") presents two pictures ("Programmer and KEFs System" and "KETF targets") of how airburst actually works:

Quote
To simplify it, it is possible to enter an autotracking mode switch. The barrel of the cannon is equipped with a 'programmer' for the KETF (= airburst) ammunition. The types of goals and an explanation of the airburst principle is given in the attached table.

The next page 4 (written "13") shows a picture of "Laserwarning threat display" and short system description:

Quote
The CV9035NL is equipped with a laser-warning system as one so-called Defensive Aide Suite (DAS). Around and on the tower is one
number of laser detectors connected to the firing ding computer. If the vehicle is illuminated, it appears a warning signal on the vehicle manning.
Depending on the mode that the commander has determined a number of countermeasures are taken. A possible example of this is the firing of smoke cans.

Photo evidence:

Here's a 2008 photo of the Dutch CV9035 with the same smoke dispenser pattern (single line of 5 canisters, that is distinct to Mk3) and LWR box:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CV9035.JPG

Edited by L0ckAndL0ad

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Final piece of the puzzle. A picture and a video of the same CV9035NL with DAS smoke dispensers & LWR block visible.

This event took place in Oirschot (Netherlands), June 1 2008.

CV 9035 NL Oirshot 2008

Same CV9035NL appears @ 1:00 minute mark:

https://youtu.be/THbCwYpkL5E?t=59

So... it is in CMSF timeframe, folks!

Looking at CMSF2 demo, neither M1 Abrams tanks nor the Bradleys have LWRs... 

ADDED LATER:

There are 4 LWR sensor blocks in total, covering full 360 degrees. Position of two aft LWR sensor blocks on the turret can be seen on this photo:

cv9035nl_1_of_6.jpg

Edited by L0ckAndL0ad

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As regards the ABM, the rounds can be fired in 2 or 3 round bursts (forgot which, I'll have to check after work tomorrow) or as singles. They can also be programmed to act like normal HE rounds and detonate on impact. In the ABM mode they can be used against helicopters or ground targets IIRC. I don't think they have a proximity mode though.

It has a rather low ready ammo store, so they can blow through ammo quickly, and they aren't that quick to reload as I remember.

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CV935 in the game does utilize airburst ammo. I just double-checked it in the full game.  I think it did back in CMSF1 too.  The air bursts are just above ground height so its easy to miss. I didn't pay close attention but it seemed to be 3 round airbursts mixed in with regular HE hits.

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11 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

CV935 in the game does utilize airburst ammo. I just double-checked it in the full game.  I think it did back in CMSF1 too.  The air bursts are just above ground height so its easy to miss. I didn't pay close attention but it seemed to be 3 round airbursts mixed in with regular HE hits.

Cool! CMSF1? I don't think so. I think direct fire airburst munitions were first introduced with BMP-3 (and later for some version of M1 Abrams) in CMBS.

Any notes on LWR and other defensive capabilities? I remember in CMSF1 there were some strange armor stats for CV9035NL, having lower protection values compared to other (older) western IFVs.

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I hope it's okay to resurrect this thread rather than create a new one on the CV90. 

 

I recently talked to a Danish dude who served on the CV9035DK in Afghanistan, and he told me some interesting things that the game doesn't get right. 

1. The CV9035's Bushmaster III gun has two magazines of 35 rounds each, for a total of 70 ready-to-fire rounds. 

2. The vehicle has an addition 280 rounds (for at total of 350, and not 210 as in the game.) in ammo storage boxes, unfortunately he didn't specify if all of these extra rounds were stored internally or if some of them were stored in the external storage box on the side of the turret. 

3. The extra rounds are linked together in 7-round belts, because of the sheer size and weight of each round - a 25mm round weighs almost a third of a 35mm one. 

4. The magazines can be reloaded from inside the vehicle, and the linked and linkless feed system of the Bushmaster III gun means that 7-rounds belts can be quickly fed into the gun mechanism and linked together with 5 more belt as they were feeding. Unfortunately he didn't specify the amount of time it would take to reload all 5 belts.  

5. Because of the limited number of ready-to-fire rounds, they would strictly use single rounds, or 5-round bursts against high-priority targets like RPG-gunners or suspected VBIEDs. 

6. They had two different automatic firing patterns for 5-round bursts- they could either be fired at the same target or be spread out in a linear pattern.  

7. Even with single rounds they were able to hit targets at distances of several kilometers. He stressed that the CV90s had a profound effect on the Talibans willingness to engage Danish or coalition forces in their vicinity. 

Edited by AtheistDane

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Here is a compilation of sources to back up my previous post, and some additional reading for those who might be interested. 

My impressions of the 35mm gun in-game compared to real life are:

  • It expends way too much ammunition (partly due to the 35 round mags not being simulated). 
  • It is too inaccurate.
  • The lethality of the KETF round is too low. 

 

Regarding ammunition loadout:

  • This official source says the typical stowed rounds are 140. Compared to what the guy I talked to said that probably means 140 rounds are carried internally and another 140 can be carried in the external storage box. 

 

On ammunition differences: 

25mm: 

  • A 25mm round weighs 425-500 gr 

30mm: 

  • A 30mm round weighs 670-835 gr. 
  • Turkish version of the 35x228mm ABM round, weighs 1750 gr or 1.75 kg.  
  • The KETF round is a member of the AHEAD familiy. If this source can be trusted the C-RAM version of the AHEAD round weighs 1750 gr or 1.75 kg.  

 

Additional reading on 35mm effectiveness in testing: 

  • Interesting find about the 35mm’s effectiveness, not sure about the validity of the source though 
  • Very interesting read from the US Army Research Laboratory about the results of 35mm airburst testing. 
  • 35mm use against swarm attacks. 
Edited by AtheistDane

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Made a point of trying these out in CM:SF2 and having done so, I'd broadly agree with your main points.....The games representations are certainly very heavy handed with the cannon ammo!  ;)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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