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Kaunitz

Tiny details you might have missed

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Here is a list of tiny details I've been unaware of and that are not described in the manual. I came upon them more or less by accident. Even though they're of minor importance, I think it's a good idea to note them down, also to show how detailed the game really is! Feel free to add your own tiny discoveries! :)

  • When buying  the mechanized/motorized version of a force, the organic (i.e. bought as part of a formation) trucks sometimes carry special extra ammunition. If part of an AT-gun unit, they carry extra AT-gun ammo (e.g. for the Soviet 45mm AT-gun: 4x HE, 16x AP, 2x cannister). If bought for other unit types, soviet trucks labeled as "(weapons)" come with additional extra ammo for the light mortar and the AT-rifles (24x 50mm mortar rounds, 50xAT rifle rounds). 
  • Even though you can't tell from their ingame appearance/UI, soviet AT-hunter teams (3men) do have AT capabilities. They are listed as carrying "6 grenades". What the game does not tell you (also no special symbols in the equipment UI-slots) is that 4 of these 6 grenades are anti-tank-grenades. The team leader carries two ordinary HE grenades on him while each of the remaining two soldiers carries 2 AT grenades. You need to be really close to use them (within 10m?). So they're like breach teams with detonation charges, just cheaper. :)
  • On the Soviet SU 76M (self propelled AT gun), you get some standard extra ammo that is automatically shared with infantry units close by (710x 7.62mm rounds). There is no need for the "acquire" command. Maybe it's meant for the weapons of the crew - the manual mentions that they can somehow fire their weapons in self-defence? The enclosed SUs also have extra ammo - I need to test if they also share it.
Edited by Kaunitz

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A bit offtopic but in CM:A some soviet (or Afghan) units that use nonstandard cartridges will never go out of ammo when near certain vehicles, even tough those vehicles don't carry that kind of ammunition.

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Kaunitz,

According to this somewhat tortured translation of an Su-76 article, the AFV was fitted with a DT MG, the same one as the bow gun on a T-34. http://weaponews.com/weapons/10521-stories-about-guns-the-su-76m.html

(Fair use)

" In addition, the sheet of the conning tower to the left of the cannon was installed 7. 62-mm machine gun dt." 

The ammo is for that MG, not handing out as party favors to infantry. That MG would be dismounted for commander's recon, too, and he would dip into the dozen grenades routinely carried on the SU as standard practice. He would have an SMG, his pistol and the grenades and would be covered by the guy with the DT. From what I can tell, crewmen had 710 rounds, at 47 rounds per magazine for a DP/DT MG, works out to a rather anemic 15 magazines on an AFV supposed to shoot in assaults. There's also this from Tank Archive. http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/search?q=su-76m

(Fair use)


"The 1944 modernization also equipped the vehicle with a DT machinegun, and ports in the sides from which it could be fired. The MG could be mounted on the rear to fire at airborne targets."

Prior link indicates it has a forward port, so it would appear it's got three plus the ability to fire aft as an AA weapon." 

AA use automatically implies high volumes of fire, further bolstering my case. Do I believe the Su-76M crew would hand over a few DT magazines in fraternal socialist support of the ammo poor frontoviki? Yes. Do I believe they'd hand over the entire ammo load of a key weapon? Absolutely not. If that's what's happening, then I would argue some sort of fix would be appropriate. If I misunderstood what you said, please clarify. Am disadvantaged here, in that I can't go consult the game, since I don't own it, so don't know its standard in game ammo loadout.


Regards,

John Kettler

Edited by John Kettler

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If I understand you correctly, you say that the SU 76M should have an AA machine gun on it? In the game, it doesn't. If you let the crew bail out, one of them got a SMG, the others have pistols. 

With a MG, the SU 76M would be even better than it already is (but if it is AA, oriented to the rear, it's not that usefull...). It has a very good offroad stat, its gun has enough punch to knock out enemy tanks, and it's also an excellent infantry support weapon as it carries lots of HE rounds (and can communicate with the infantry quickly thanks to the open compartment?). For the very low pricepoint, it's an excellent unit!

 

Edited by Kaunitz

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Kaunitz,

For what it is, it's a very good vehicle, on par with our M18 in terms of ground pressure and thus, able to operate where no other armor could in the Pripyet Marshes. My interpretation of what I've read is that there were three firing ports for that DT: forward, left and right side, with the ability to also use it for AA work by removing the weapon and pointing it aft. You can see the right side port (with DT protruding, I believe) on that translated page, in that fisheye view of an Su-76M. These things said, I've never had the opportunity to see one, Also, this AFV, not tanks,  would be the go to for shooting in infantry attacks. See MIlsom, Soviet Armour 1917-1970, for proof.

Regards,

John Kettler

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11 hours ago, John Kettler said:

Kaunitz,

My interpretation of what I've read is that there were three firing ports for that DT: forward, left and right side, with the ability to also use it for AA work by removing the weapon and pointing it aft.

Interesting! Thanks for the info! Afaik though, the engine can't handle firing ports (e.g. in modern titles with the IFVs)? 

I've been playing CM for a long time, but I've come across this just now, analyzing why my squad was so bunched up in my current H2H game. I guess most of you already know (lol)?

  • In the crew/infantry UI-window, there is a maximum of three columns. For infantry, these columns actually represent squares occupied by the unit. The first/left column shows you the soldiers that are positioned on the "primary square" of the unit, the second/center column those positioned on the "secondary square" (if any) and the third/right column those on the "tertiary square" (if any). The "combine squad" order lets you concentrate more soldiers on fewer squares. E.g. with the "combine squad" order,  you can fill up empty slots in the first and second column with soldiers from the third to reduce the unit's footprint from 3 to 2 squares. Note that you can observe how the individual soldiers from the third column will move over to their new square/column individually. Each column can hold up to 7 soldiers. So, if your unit is stronger than 7 soldiers, it will take up 2 squares. Finally a tip: When splitting squads, make sure you never end up with a "7 men on one square" unit. It's horribly bunched up.

 

Edited by Kaunitz

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I've always been confused regarding the SU-76's coax DT. So only the '44 versions feature it? Does it apply for all the various manufacturers of the vehicle -- different Soviet factories often introduced their own modifications for mass produced vehicles?

Was this MG used as coax, or did it often get passed to more desirable roles -- like the P. 3's MG?

Yeah, most AFVs in WW2 featured a bunch of pistol ports. Never saw them used in-game (very rarely used IRL too). I've never seen 'nades tossed by the crew from hatches either. Which was a real thing.

Yeah, I have yet to see infantry shooting out of BTR firing ports. Strange.

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Su-76s were used as ersatz-APC sometimes, tank desant loaded inside crew compartment, not outside. May be sometimes it looked like that picture! (Not really, but looks fun)

 

 

1014377173.jpg

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