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Chibot Mk IX

ATGM malfunction?

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I noticed that sometime the lunched ATGM missile will drop on the ground 2 to 3 seconds after the missile left the tube.  This happens on wired guide ATGM like AT-4 and AT-7. At first I thought it is to simulate low experience operator. But latter I found out that even Veteran/Crack ATGM group could experience this problem.  So is it simulate the malfunction of ATGM?  or simulate the missile is out of control because wire entangled with trees?  

What is chance this will happen?  (My limit game experience give me a number of 20%)

 

Thx

 

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There's a failure rate due to operator/other error, but there are also passive protection systems like shtora, which can do the same job. The operator can also just fly the damn thing into the ground.

Failure rates are therefore very difficult to appproximate.

 

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Programmer Charles addressed a question about this in CMSF2. Missiles have a coded-in random failure %. The earlier the generation of missiles the higher the chance that it won't make it all the way to the target. AT-3 Sagger in CMSF is particularly untrustworthy. AT-4, AT-7, AT-13, AT-14 have increasing reliability levels.  Even Javelin occasionally bites the dust. Add to that environmental factors, ECM levels, operator suppression or experience/motivation/fitness or his link to command.

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In the war on Donbas about 30 % of all AT-4 launches failed because of lost of control over the missile or because missile even didn't get out from container. Expired term of using... So such game modelling has a sense.

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Thanks everyone, good to know

 

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 2:31 PM, Haiduk said:

In the war on Donbas about 30 % of all AT-4 launches failed because of lost of control over the missile or because missile even didn't get out from container. Expired term of using... So such game modelling has a sense.

I remember there was a video clip of US SOF and SDF try to intercept an incoming ISIS VBIED, 3 Milan launches failed as missiles out of control and dropped to the ground, then American has to use the Javelin to destroy that VBIED

 

 

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On 10/11/2018 at 9:31 PM, Haiduk said:

In the war on Donbas about 30 % of all AT-4 launches failed because of lost of control over the missile or because missile even didn't get out from container. Expired term of using... So such game modelling has a sense.

I once told how the rocket came back after the launch due to the fact that it was already quite old. Fortunately, everything went without a serious incident.

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On 10/17/2018 at 6:15 PM, Ivan Zaitzev said:

Expired term of using? Didn't know those things had an expiration date. Do you know what specific part degrades and how much it last?

The solid fuel mostly. The command wires for wire guided missiles can degrade over time as well.

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1 hour ago, Splinty said:

The solid fuel mostly. The command wires for wire guided missiles can degrade over time as well.

Since then I have read that the battery can degrade and some Jihadist groups have find a way to bypass the dead battery and use an external one.

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On 10/16/2018 at 11:44 PM, Chibot Mk IX said:

Thanks everyone, good to know

 

I remember there was a video clip of US SOF and SDF try to intercept an incoming ISIS VBIED, 3 Milan launches failed as missiles out of control and dropped to the ground, then American has to use the Javelin to destroy that VBIED 

 

 

Are you refering to this video ?

If yes, it was French SF and Peshmerga firing a Milan at a VBIED that missed, so they fired a Javelin that destroyed it.

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You reminded me that originally, when the Mujahideen were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan, it was planned to supply the insurgents with British Blowpipe AA missiles. Only problem was in tests Blowpipe couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. That's when it was decided to supply them with Stinger instead.

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7 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

I attributed that to the Javelin setting off the explosives in the truck. The Milan, as nearly as I could make out, was a clear miss.

Michael

That could be it.

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On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 3:49 PM, FoxZz said:

Are you refering to this video ?

If yes, it was French SF and Peshmerga firing a Milan at a VBIED that missed, so they fired a Javelin that destroyed it.

I could have a wrong impression but I think it is not this one. Anyway, thank you for sharing this video.

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On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:10 PM, Michael Emrys said:

I attributed that to the Javelin setting off the explosives in the truck. The Milan, as nearly as I could make out, was a clear miss.

Michael

I agree, but on the other hand the Javelin's warhead weight is 8.4kg, Milan's warhead weight is 2.7kg. 

 

Yesterday in one of my CMBS game, I noticed that a BTR was knocked out by close missed Javelin. The same vehicle could survive a close missed 105mm HE. 

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9 hours ago, Chibot Mk IX said:

I agree, but on the other hand the Javelin's warhead weight is 8.4kg, Milan's warhead weight is 2.7kg. 

Well yes, that would make for a bigger bang, wouldn't it?

B)

BTW, the kill with a near miss is something I noticed too, but only once. It was one of the extremely few times I ever saw one miss.

Michael

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On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 12:53 PM, IanL said:

Did you mean a close miss by a 155mm? Those BTRs are not very tough it is not surprising that they would go down easily.

no, I mean 105mm. In scenario "Hold the line" US paratroops has the support from M119A3 105mm, I saw 2-3 rounds close miss at a BTR-80A, but only cause slightly damage on the wheel

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On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 5:56 PM, Chibot Mk IX said:

Yesterday in one of my CMBS game, I noticed that a BTR was knocked out by close missed Javelin. 

too bad I forgot to save that turn's replay, but I have the save file before and after

 

Before

FySQM8S.png

 

After

mMAtXEI.png

 

Javelin left a huge crater, caused 3 casualties to the personal in that BTR-80A

 

 

 

 

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That seems pretty normal. Javelin's are not perfect - close but not quite :) But those BTRs are not very strong so I am not surprised that a near miss still wrecked the vehicle.

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2 hours ago, IanL said:

That seems pretty normal. Javelin's are not perfect - close but not quite :) But those BTRs are not very strong so I am not surprised that a near miss still wrecked the vehicle.

But Javelin has HEAT warhead, not HE. There is very doubt that it close explosion can cause so severe consequences. I posted a video here, how HEAT shell from UKR tank exploded near the DNR fighter and he got only medium injuries. Yes, Jav has 2,67 kg of HE, but most part of it directed to formation a shaped charge stream, not for heavy fragments, like in HE shell. I suppose, the metal stream would have gone in the ground not in the BTR 

Edited by Haiduk

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