Chibot Mk IX Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I noticed that sometime the lunched ATGM missile will drop on the ground 2 to 3 seconds after the missile left the tube. This happens on wired guide ATGM like AT-4 and AT-7. At first I thought it is to simulate low experience operator. But latter I found out that even Veteran/Crack ATGM group could experience this problem. So is it simulate the malfunction of ATGM? or simulate the missile is out of control because wire entangled with trees? What is chance this will happen? (My limit game experience give me a number of 20%) Thx 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domfluff Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 There's a failure rate due to operator/other error, but there are also passive protection systems like shtora, which can do the same job. The operator can also just fly the damn thing into the ground. Failure rates are therefore very difficult to appproximate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Programmer Charles addressed a question about this in CMSF2. Missiles have a coded-in random failure %. The earlier the generation of missiles the higher the chance that it won't make it all the way to the target. AT-3 Sagger in CMSF is particularly untrustworthy. AT-4, AT-7, AT-13, AT-14 have increasing reliability levels. Even Javelin occasionally bites the dust. Add to that environmental factors, ECM levels, operator suppression or experience/motivation/fitness or his link to command. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 In the war on Donbas about 30 % of all AT-4 launches failed because of lost of control over the missile or because missile even didn't get out from container. Expired term of using... So such game modelling has a sense. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chibot Mk IX Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 Thanks everyone, good to know On 10/11/2018 at 2:31 PM, Haiduk said: In the war on Donbas about 30 % of all AT-4 launches failed because of lost of control over the missile or because missile even didn't get out from container. Expired term of using... So such game modelling has a sense. I remember there was a video clip of US SOF and SDF try to intercept an incoming ISIS VBIED, 3 Milan launches failed as missiles out of control and dropped to the ground, then American has to use the Javelin to destroy that VBIED 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUSKER2142 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 On 10/11/2018 at 9:31 PM, Haiduk said: In the war on Donbas about 30 % of all AT-4 launches failed because of lost of control over the missile or because missile even didn't get out from container. Expired term of using... So such game modelling has a sense. I once told how the rocket came back after the launch due to the fact that it was already quite old. Fortunately, everything went without a serious incident. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Zaitzev Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Expired term of using? Didn't know those things had an expiration date. Do you know what specific part degrades and how much it last? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 On 10/17/2018 at 6:15 PM, Ivan Zaitzev said: Expired term of using? Didn't know those things had an expiration date. Do you know what specific part degrades and how much it last? The solid fuel mostly. The command wires for wire guided missiles can degrade over time as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Zaitzev Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Splinty said: The solid fuel mostly. The command wires for wire guided missiles can degrade over time as well. Since then I have read that the battery can degrade and some Jihadist groups have find a way to bypass the dead battery and use an external one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxZz Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 On 10/16/2018 at 11:44 PM, Chibot Mk IX said: Thanks everyone, good to know I remember there was a video clip of US SOF and SDF try to intercept an incoming ISIS VBIED, 3 Milan launches failed as missiles out of control and dropped to the ground, then American has to use the Javelin to destroy that VBIED Are you refering to this video ? If yes, it was French SF and Peshmerga firing a Milan at a VBIED that missed, so they fired a Javelin that destroyed it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 You reminded me that originally, when the Mujahideen were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan, it was planned to supply the insurgents with British Blowpipe AA missiles. Only problem was in tests Blowpipe couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. That's when it was decided to supply them with Stinger instead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Sapper' Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 But the UK did supply the mujahideen with Blowpie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Sapper' Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 3 hours ago, 'Sapper' said: But the UK did supply the mujahideen with Blowpie. Blowpipe 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 The video...Milan impact (did the warhead fully detonate???) vs the Javelin. One was clearly more energetic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 54 minutes ago, c3k said: One was clearly more energetic. I attributed that to the Javelin setting off the explosives in the truck. The Milan, as nearly as I could make out, was a clear miss. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 hours ago, Michael Emrys said: I attributed that to the Javelin setting off the explosives in the truck. The Milan, as nearly as I could make out, was a clear miss. Michael That could be it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chibot Mk IX Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 On 12/9/2018 at 3:49 PM, FoxZz said: Are you refering to this video ? If yes, it was French SF and Peshmerga firing a Milan at a VBIED that missed, so they fired a Javelin that destroyed it. I could have a wrong impression but I think it is not this one. Anyway, thank you for sharing this video. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chibot Mk IX Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 9:10 PM, Michael Emrys said: I attributed that to the Javelin setting off the explosives in the truck. The Milan, as nearly as I could make out, was a clear miss. Michael I agree, but on the other hand the Javelin's warhead weight is 8.4kg, Milan's warhead weight is 2.7kg. Yesterday in one of my CMBS game, I noticed that a BTR was knocked out by close missed Javelin. The same vehicle could survive a close missed 105mm HE. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 9 hours ago, Chibot Mk IX said: I agree, but on the other hand the Javelin's warhead weight is 8.4kg, Milan's warhead weight is 2.7kg. Well yes, that would make for a bigger bang, wouldn't it? BTW, the kill with a near miss is something I noticed too, but only once. It was one of the extremely few times I ever saw one miss. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Did you mean a close miss by a 155mm? Those BTRs are not very tough it is not surprising that they would go down easily. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chibot Mk IX Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 On 12/28/2018 at 12:53 PM, IanL said: Did you mean a close miss by a 155mm? Those BTRs are not very tough it is not surprising that they would go down easily. no, I mean 105mm. In scenario "Hold the line" US paratroops has the support from M119A3 105mm, I saw 2-3 rounds close miss at a BTR-80A, but only cause slightly damage on the wheel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chibot Mk IX Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 On 12/27/2018 at 5:56 PM, Chibot Mk IX said: Yesterday in one of my CMBS game, I noticed that a BTR was knocked out by close missed Javelin. too bad I forgot to save that turn's replay, but I have the save file before and after Before After Javelin left a huge crater, caused 3 casualties to the personal in that BTR-80A 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 That seems pretty normal. Javelin's are not perfect - close but not quite But those BTRs are not very strong so I am not surprised that a near miss still wrecked the vehicle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, IanL said: That seems pretty normal. Javelin's are not perfect - close but not quite But those BTRs are not very strong so I am not surprised that a near miss still wrecked the vehicle. But Javelin has HEAT warhead, not HE. There is very doubt that it close explosion can cause so severe consequences. I posted a video here, how HEAT shell from UKR tank exploded near the DNR fighter and he got only medium injuries. Yes, Jav has 2,67 kg of HE, but most part of it directed to formation a shaped charge stream, not for heavy fragments, like in HE shell. I suppose, the metal stream would have gone in the ground not in the BTR Edited January 10, 2019 by Haiduk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, Haiduk said: But Javelin has HEAT warhead Oh yeah - that is a good point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.