Lovely AFV pic from Italy

[John Kettler]

Not only is this something you don't see everyday, but notice how severe the sun bleaching is on the paint.

Regards,

John Kettler

[JoMac]

and, or Dusk kicking-up and setting on Vehicles...

[JulianJ]

There's also the fading of old photographs, lovely though they are the few colour images from that era cannot be assumed to be the actual tone. Which makes things difficult for  people wanting to model the vehicles correctly.  I seem to recall that Bovington Tank Museum went to great lengths to get original colour swatches or paint samples to restore some of its classic AFVs and sometimes the colours turned out to be different than  was thought.

[Wicky]

Add the quality of the original film stock and any intervening processing - I believe the pic in the OP is a colourised version of this b&w pic.

https://sassik.livejournal.com/497553.html

[Wicky]

Correction - Looks like it was originally a Time Life Colour pic - Goodness what the original colours were if the print magazine page was digitally scanned...

[StieliAlpha]

6 hours ago, JulianJ said:

There's also the fading of old photographs, lovely though they are the few colour images from that era cannot be assumed to be the actual tone. Which makes things difficult for  people wanting to model the vehicles correctly.  I seem to recall that Bovington Tank Museum went to great lengths to get original colour swatches or paint samples to restore some of its classic AFVs and sometimes the colours turned out to be different than  was thought.

We had that discussion a long time ago. I dare to say „It is nigh impossible“ to recreate „original“ colours.

There are simply too many variables, especially in application. My personal favourite is, that Germans in the late war diluted paint with whatever was at hand. From machine oil to water. You can imagine the impact on the appearance..

[JulianJ]

I  thought it didn't look colourised.  Rare indeed, and thanks to @John Kettler but we can glean some info - the Semovente seems to be painted in red-brown and green over sand, like German  AFVs. And the M3s are either very bleached  and/or dusty as other posters have said, doesn't look like the deep green olive drab we imagine they should be.   And look at that hill in the background - that's an obstacle, isn't it?

[Erwin]

It's possible also that the "colorizers" deliberately lightened the BG vehicles to enhance a sense of depth in the pic and to have the viewer focus on the men who seem to have a darker more intense color even tho' they are being lit by the same sun.  Note how the coloring of the man in front is a bit darker than the 2nd guy behind him.  The vehicles behind the 2nd guy are slightly lighter again.

 

[Hardradi]

5 hours ago, JulianJ said:

I  thought it didn't look colourised.  Rare indeed, and thanks to @John Kettler but we can glean some info - the Semovente seems to be painted in red-brown and green over sand, like German  AFVs. And the M3s are either very bleached  and/or dusty as other posters have said, doesn't look like the deep green olive drab we imagine they should be.   And look at that hill in the background - that's an obstacle, isn't it?

Semovente, looks like it might be the clover leaf of the 71st Infantry Division on the front right.

[Warts 'n' all]

18 hours ago, Wicky said:

Add the quality of the original film stock and any intervening processing - I believe the pic in the OP is a colourised version of this b&w pic.

https://sassik.livejournal.com/497553.html

It seems a bit strange that the translator puts Ausonia in France. But, it's still a great picture.

[John Kettler]

Great discussion, with some wonderful finds as a result! As for the link. Dr. NIcola Pignato was the dean of Italian AFV studies even back when AFV G-2 was in print in the 1970s. Concur that mislocating the photo by an entire country was a big gaffe by the translator, who had a fail safe in Frosinone, but didn't check that, either. Dust certainly is present, but the image is so sere ( also screams hot) that I really do believe the paint has bleached out considerably on these AFVs. Believe the top paragraphs at link will privide some insight on things which make OD wash out, turn colors, etc.

http://www.desertarmor.com/DAK2/Painting_OD.html#15

Here is a really weathered Sherman turret top. Not even close to OD

This one's ex-IDF and really shows the sun bleaching I was describing. Looks like IDF Armored Force Museum at Latrun. Early M4 with almost no add-on armor but full sand skirts.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Michael Emrys]

1 hour ago, Warts 'n' all said:

It seems a bit strange that the translator puts Ausonia in France.

I noticed that too. The soldiers look French to me (wearing French pattern helmets) and that might have been the source of the confusion.

Michael

[Erwin]

The problem with colors is that how one take the pic and with what medium affects the colors.  So, one cannot be 100% sure one is seeing the color accurately in a pic - unless there is a professional color chart next to the item being photographed for comparison.  

Color balancing is a major job in movie-making and post production.

[Warts 'n' all]

7 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

I noticed that too. The soldiers look French to me (wearing French pattern helmets) and that might have been the source of the confusion.

Michael

Yeah, definitely French North Africans serving on the 5th Army part of the front.

[Wicky]

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

The problem with colors is that how one take the pic and with what medium affects the colors.  So, one cannot be 100% sure one is seeing the color accurately in a pic - unless there is a professional color chart next to the item being photographed for comparison.  

Color balancing is a major job in movie-making and post production.

I concur - the effect dust overlay can have on colour swatches

Edited September 27, 2018 by Wicky

[StieliAlpha]

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

The problem with colors is that how one take the pic and with what medium affects the colors.  So, one cannot be 100% sure one is seeing the color accurately in a pic - unless there is a professional color chart next to the item being photographed for comparison.  

Color balancing is a major job in movie-making and post production.

Good point. Remember the famous „The Dress“ discussion back in 2015. I admit an extreme example, how one can not be sure of the colours he „sees“.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress

Edited September 27, 2018 by StieliAlpha