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They meant september of next year!

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3 hours ago, Vet 0369 said:

Well now, that would be a very good way to get BF to update (but didn't they do that in the Demo Video thread)! Invoke your perceived legal right to sue, and tie them up in court. That way, it might never ship.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

And again, talking about no good deed goes unpunished, the angst here about preorders could result in BF deciding to never offer a discounted preorder again.

Perhaps you're conflating understanding with doing - it is the case that this is the law, it is not the case that anyone is suing. Reading comprehension: it's great, try it out.

Oh wow - threatened by no discount. Perhaps such a tiny company should be worried about customers purchasing their content, and their fragile customers should not be so worried about upsetting the big boss for fear of losing a discount. How did business become this sycophantic and servile?

Edited by Snake726

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3 hours ago, Snake726 said:

Oh wow - threatened by no discount. Perhaps such a tiny company should be worried about customers purchasing their content, and their fragile customers should not be so worried about upsetting the big boss for fear of losing a discount. How did business become this sycophantic and servile?

Exactly!  Prepayments are generally used to generate income for a business in advance of shipping. This allows the company to meet overheads, such as staff wages and prevent a cash flow problem arising. BF are not offering prepayment discount as a kind gesture - it benefits the company in its development of the product. How naive to think otherwise!

 "Suing" BF- doh!!  What contract law is effectively supporting is a buyers right to seek a refund from a seller if delivery of the goods within a reasonable period fails.

I never thought I'd ever feel this way with BF, but I am very close myself to requesting refund on SF2, though not because of the delivery issue. It is in part because of BF's continuing failure to provide an update about the lapsed release window and being forced to check back in to find out what is going on, and having done so, I read yet more dismissive, intolerant and disrespectful responses (from the same defenders of BF) to the valid views and concerns expressed on this thread and elsewhere on the forum. 

Worse, it doesn't help that they repeatedly misunderstand or demonstrate a lack of listening skills and reasoned thinking when compiling their responses. And whether BF like it or not, these members are perceived as representing the position of BF and speak with authority about the company. 

If anything is badly needed going forward, it's that BF require a competent and strong communications person to represent them, and then those members that are so disastrously filling the vacuum presently, can take a well-deserved back seat! 

Edited by The Steppenwulf

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3 hours ago, Harry Speakup said:

They could definitely do with someone handling PR and "Community Manager". It might help avoid threads like this flaring up unnecessarily.

I think the lack of communication is because they don't want to argue with customers but would rather leave gameplay trailers here or there to placate the more veteran players. What do I know, I just joined the forums a couple weeks ago.

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Steve himself said why he rarely has time to provide updates. I forget where exactly but it was essentially that the forums are a gateway drug, and he finds it very hard to "just post an update" and avoid getting his whole day (or more) taken up by answering questions and getting into discussions. He's human like you and me, so while I too would appreciate less radio silence I can perfectly understand why he is quiet sometimes! And if Steve doesn't do it, there really isn't anyone else...

I'm excited, but I have plenty of other stuff to do so I don't mind the wait. :D

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3awvOST.jpg

 

I've been holding off posting an official update because there's been an annoying detail and a few other things that needed to get nailed down first.  It's pretty much where I need it to be, so expect a post in a few days. -Steve

 

Mord.

Edited by Mord

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I think there is logic in " the staff and owners"  not becoming tied up in this type of discussion. A customer posts a comment. A staff member or one of the owners responds..........fine. Except that it can quickly become, with some customers, an expectation that there will be an ongoing dialogue about the issue. It can waste a lot of time when company members who would be ordinarily working on the product have to straighten out misunderstandings and misconceptions about posted information. 

Mind you, it would have been diplomatic for Battlefront to simply post, at the end of September, an acknowledgement that the date was regrettably missed for the full release and demo, and that work continues to finish the game as soon as possible. Please be patient there are more issues to resolve than we thought..... and  We won't offer further comment as we must focus completely on producing the game.

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I've been holding off posting an official update because there's been an annoying detail and a few other things that needed to get nailed down first.  It's pretty much where I need it to be, so expect a post in a few days. -Steve

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21 hours ago, Snake726 said:

Sure thing - perhaps you'd find it upsetting to be proven wrong, but I don't really care - actually, no, I might enjoy it!

Here is Battlefront's "sales policy" which is their TOS; you'll notice there are no clauses pertaining to anything to do with pre-orders except for refunds.

The text on their front page would be considered marketing material, not a legal disclaimer...

So, I went to their "sales policy", thanks for the link, and it says the following about pre-orders:

"Backordered and Pre-Order items are shipped out when they become available."

So your description of their sales policy is grossly inaccurate.

When I wrote "Please do explain..." I was hoping you would do a little better than this.

2nd edit: Also, their "sales policy" aligns with what you claim are marketing materials. I'm no legal expert, but I would not be surprised if you were wrong that their product page would be considered merely marketing when it spells out the when the product will be released.

Edited by sfhand
clarity

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More from the "Sales Policy page":

"ORDERS WITH OUT OF STOCK OR PRE-ORDER ITEMS

If your order contains any out of stock, backordered or Pre-order items your order will NOT ship until all ordered items are back in stock. We do not ship out partial orders.

Our online ordering system is setup to bill you at the time of purchase not the time of shipment. That means that as soon as you click the "Submit Order" button your credit card will be billed.

If your order contains backordered or out of stock items you will be billed the full amount before the order ships. If you do not wish to be billed in that way, then please do not place an order with any out of stock or backordered items."

Pre-ordered items are "out of stock" items by definition about which BF clearly states if you don't want to be billed in advance on out of stock items don't order them.

Let's look at this rationally... BF has a Sales Policy page and they have a product page that parrots the key bits of information about when to expect a pre-ordered product (when it is in stock). The product page also says the game will ship when it's ready(it is not in stock until a release candidate has gone gold). I do not perceive this as marketing, I believe this information is included in the sales page so that prospective buyers won't have to read the "Sales Policy" page to understand the pre-ordered item will not ship until it's ready. The unscrupulous thing to do would be to not mention it at all on the product page and fall back on a "Well it is clearly spelled out in our Sales Policy" rationale as an answer to complaints about taking money from customers and not delivering product. Clearly BF has not acted in bad faith toward their customers, but have tried to ensure complete transparency regarding the parameters of the purchase. That's not just marketing, that's also being honest about the parameters of the purchase.

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Snake726: No. I'm right.

Three other guys: No. I'm right.

Snake726: No. I'm right.

Three other guys: No. I'm right.

Snake726: No. I'm right.

Three other guys: No. I'm right.

Snake726: No. I'm right.

Three other guys: No. I'm right.

Snake726: No. I'm right.

Three other guys: No. I'm right.

Snake726: No. I'm right.

Three other guys: No. I'm right.

Snake726: No. I'm right.

Three other guys: No. I'm right.

Snake726: No. I'm right.

Three other guys: No. I'm right.

Snake726: No. I'm right.

Three other guys: No. I'm right.

 

Jesus, I think we get the gist, fellas. Enough already. LOL. Move on to something interesting and productive.

 

Mord.

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Well, if you guys want to keep arguing the minutiae of BFC's pre-orders that's your business but it's beyond ridiculous at this point. Steve should've locked the thread after he said there'd be an update. Now, it's just devolved into a $#@% measuring contest.

 

Mord.

Edited by Mord

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46 minutes ago, Mord said:

Well, if you guys want to keep arguing the minutiae of BFC's pre-orders that's your business but it's beyond ridiculous at this point. Steve should've locked the thread after he said there'd be an update. Now, it's just devolved into a $#@% measuring contest.

 

Mord.

No I'm right!  I used an exclamation point so I must really be right.

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14 hours ago, Mord said:

Jesus, I think we get the gist, fellas. Enough already. LOL. Move on to something interesting and productive.

"Interesting and productive?"

On the internet? Fat chance. Next you'll ask for world peace.

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13 hours ago, Mord said:

Well, if you guys want to keep arguing the minutiae of BFC's pre-orders that's your business but it's beyond ridiculous at this point. Steve should've locked the thread after he said there'd be an update. Now, it's just devolved into a $#@% measuring contest.

 

Mord.

Hey, I understand where you're coming from. I don't have anything invested in this, Hell, at this point I think anyone who thinks they've been wronged should go ahead and lawyer up and sue BF (i.e., put their money where their mouth is). In a thread like this I think posting the sales terms of a pre-order is helpful more than divisive. I was seriously surprised that some couldn't accept it for what it  is. Peace out!

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8 hours ago, sfhand said:

Hey, I understand where you're coming from. I don't have anything invested in this, Hell, at this point I think anyone who thinks they've been wronged should go ahead and lawyer up and sue BF (i.e., put their money where their mouth is). In a thread like this I think posting the sales terms of a pre-order is helpful more than divisive. I was seriously surprised that some couldn't accept it for what it  is. Peace out!

Really - I have $155.00 Canadian dollars invested in this.

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8 hours ago, sfhand said:

In a thread like this I think posting the sales terms of a pre-order is helpful more than divisive

You seem to have missed that you are incorrect - those "sales terms" are legally considered marketing text: I posted the sales terms, and pointed out how they do not agree with your interpretation that we just have to deal with it. Customers are legally capable of obtaining a refund and, likely, the FCC implemented this law to prevent situations where a company takes your money and says "It will be delivered whenever". If you are so whipped that this kind of customer protection upsets you, and makes you worried for the developer, then I suppose you can dispute that with your federal government.

It seems that it is so difficult for some people here to register that others have a right to have a different opinion so long as it is justified, and so you continue to argue in order to silence people - unfortunately, you are arguing rather poorly.

Edited by Snake726

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Just imagine how ridiculous this is - I sell games to people for a living, and I have to lecture some people on protecting their rights as consumers. Your willingness to get fleeced so you don't upset the person selling to you is obscene; when the marketing team try to tell me how effective they are I usually don't take them so seriously, but hey, these people really exist eh. You learn something new every day.

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22 hours ago, Mord said:

Well, if you guys want to keep arguing the minutiae of BFC's pre-orders that's your business but it's beyond ridiculous at this point. Steve should've locked the thread after he said there'd be an update. Now, it's just devolved into a $#@% measuring contest.

 

Mord.

No. Steve should read this thread, and wonder "Is my approach working? Is this what a good communications strategy looks like?"

I mean, you can just say "my fans are lunatics" and close the thread, but I suppose if you want to run a business you can't afford to be ignorant for the sake of ego.

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