The Commissar Posted September 17, 2000 Share Posted September 17, 2000 I was looking through a pile of history books, and I noticed that some German helmets had two small "horns" on each side of the helmet. I was just wondering what these were for. Thanks in advance! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted September 17, 2000 Share Posted September 17, 2000 I've seen helmets with studs, but I wouldn't have called them horns. Were they not just to hold the liner in place? In the First World War they all had spikes on top of their helmets... David ------------------ They lost all of their equipment and had to swim in under machine gun fire. As they struggled in the water, Gardner heard somebody say, "Perhaps we're intruding, this seems to be a private beach." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted September 17, 2000 Share Posted September 17, 2000 venting. ------------------ "All i hear is the Iron Cross sucks etc. " (GAZ_NZ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilger Posted September 17, 2000 Share Posted September 17, 2000 Horns?!? Haven't seen any horns! Must be thinking of spiked helmets. [This message has been edited by Dilger (edited 09-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted September 17, 2000 Author Share Posted September 17, 2000 Yes, those stubs. It's just the word "horns" popped into my head when I was looking at them. Anyway, if it's to hold liner in place, cool. Thanks for the answers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Captain Foobar* Posted September 17, 2000 Share Posted September 17, 2000 when I opened this thread , I was expecting to see some cheesy minnesota viking helmet pasted onto a CM soldier.... at first I was relieved, but now I feel a little let down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted September 17, 2000 Share Posted September 17, 2000 I think you have them confused with Vikings. They are probably attachments for the liner or strap, as David Aitken said. I have noticed that the WWI version had more pronounced "horns." I guess the WWII version used a more modern rivet that had a flush appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grognerd_Fogman Posted September 17, 2000 Share Posted September 17, 2000 To spear the Gerbils? ------------------ Thanks for Athskin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted September 17, 2000 Share Posted September 17, 2000 I think M Hofbauer is the expert. =) ------------------ They lost all of their equipment and had to swim in under machine gun fire. As they struggled in the water, Gardner heard somebody say, "Perhaps we're intruding, this seems to be a private beach." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted September 17, 2000 Share Posted September 17, 2000 I KNEW CM was missing something, with those spiked helmets Germans troops should have a 'headbutt' command...otherwise known as a 'liverpool kiss' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtualfreak Posted September 17, 2000 Share Posted September 17, 2000 I think the next CM should cover the first world war. That way we can command german troops with those cool spiked helmets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 virtualfreak wrote: > I think the next CM should cover the first world war. Might be a bit boring... "Command a division of conscripts as they walk en masse towards a line of enemy machineguns" or "Try and find somewhere to hide as enemy artillery blows the stuffing out of you for the ninth time today"... David ------------------ They lost all of their equipment and had to swim in under machine gun fire. As they struggled in the water, Gardner heard somebody say, "Perhaps we're intruding, this seems to be a private beach." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dilger: Horns?!? Haven't seen any horns! Must be thinking of spiked helmets. [This message has been edited by Dilger (edited 09-17-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> All WWI German helmets had big venting stubs. The smaller was the size, the bigger were the studs. The were big because there were helmet armour plates available for the helmet (one size only) which were attached to the stubs and secured with a leather strap. They were used along breast armour plates by WWI assault units. The German WWI helmet was redesigned in 1935 and became noticeably smaller (and nicer). There wasn't an armour plate for it anymore so there was no need for big studs. Some second line units during the first year of WWII and later third line, allied and Volksturm units still wore those helmets during WWII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 Thank you, Fernando. The spiked "Pickelhaube" was dropped altogether in 1918, but had been on the way out since 1915, when the "Stalhelm" or steel helmet came on line to reflect the hazards of modern war. The original Pickelhaube were made of pressed leather and were designed to prevent sword injuries, not shrapnel wounds. They also had camo covers for them in the early 20th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 The horn is a "picklehaub" and it is a throw back to medieval uniforms used to identify the wearer -- it had no practical use and was phased (mostly) out with the fall of the Weimar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Check6 Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 I think you're wrong, Slappy. My history teacher said it was a CQB weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzvg Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 The 2 two studs on the sides of the helmet were originally for attaching a faceplate,later attempts were made to use them for attaching the gas mask,neither was successful and the studs were dropped from later production helmets ------------------ Pzvg "Confucious say, it is better to remain silent, and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted September 18, 2000 Author Share Posted September 18, 2000 Wow, thanks for all the diverse answers, fellows! I don't know which (if any ) of them is the correct one, but I was especially interested by pzvg's anwer. Germans with faceplates - I don't know about you guys, but I would of totally been freaked out by seeing a giant uniformed SS soldier charging at me wearing a faceplate. Something about face plates gives a more "inhuman" appearence. ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipper Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 so the one's sticking outta there head's would fit inside the helmut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 They're actually controls for the integral personal stereo (PerzonallKopfenStereö modell zwei ausf. B, PzKfSt for short). The one on the left is an on/off switch, and right is a volume control. These were soon relocated when the British developed the tactic of sneaking up behind them and turning the volume up all the way, which would deafen the victim and stun them long enough to steal their Chocoladen rations and run away. David ------------------ They lost all of their equipment and had to swim in under machine gun fire. As they struggled in the water, Gardner heard somebody say, "Perhaps we're intruding, this seems to be a private beach." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest machineman Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 Well, that jogged a memory loose. Correct me if I'm wrong, but those WWI assault units with the body armour were used as the equivalent of "Blitzkreig" tanks by the Germans in their last great western offensive. Instead of the heavy artillery barrages that were commonly used up to then these troops followed quickly behind a sharp, but short, shelling, bypassing centers of resistance, attacking the rear areas, etc. Ground attack aircraft were designed to work together with these troops and in the first few battles these tactics worked well, until the "Sturmtruppen" simply got exhausted and used up. Add 'mechanical sturmtruppen' that didn't tire out and bim bam boom, suddenly Hitler was in control of an army that could deliver him Europe in 'world war II, the sequel'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 I don't remember anything about the Germans using body armor in WWI; perhaps the cavalry wore a cuirass. Machineman, the "sturmtruppen" you spoke of were actually called "Stosstruppen" (literally, "thrusting troops"). They received special training in infiltrating or bypassing enemy strongpoints after delivering the short artillery barrage you spoke of. I think that was called a hurricane barrage. Has anyone played the old paper wargame "To the Green Fields Beyond"? It's about the battle of Cambrai--the first massed attack by tanks, but also the first time (to my knowledge) Stoss units were used in battle. Nelson [This message has been edited by Admiral (edited 09-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipper Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 A true classic probably the best ww1 game that came out ...better than verdun(a beer an pretzels classic) better than 1914 by avalon hill (a great strategic game)..just totally unique an it's got offensive's on both side's ever read the ironclad's of cambrai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzvg Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 From The Handbook on German military forces, U.S. War Department, 1 mar 1945 TM-E 30-451 "The present steel helmet,M1935,is used by all branches of the German armed forces<edit for space> The M1935 is a smaller and lighter version of the World War I helmet, from which it can be differentiated by the absence of facepiece lugs which characterized the old helmet" ------------------ Pzvg "Confucious say, it is better to remain silent, and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted September 18, 2000 Share Posted September 18, 2000 pzvg, if you quote then please do a complete quote. TM-E 30-451, Chapter IX, Sec. I., 3. Field Uniform "a. Headgear. (1) Steel helmet. The present steel helmet, M1935, is used by all branches of the German Armed forces although some World War I helmets as well as Czech and Italian helmets are still in use. The M1935 is a smaller and lighter version of the World War I helmet, from which it can be differentiated by the absence of facepiece lugs which characterized the old helmet. It comes in five basic sizes, which weigh from 1.8 to 2.7 pounds. Two ventilation holes are furnished at the sides." (emphasis added by me) on a side note, this is one area where the "The Handbook on German Military Forces" shows that it is not the infallible bible that many people seem to believe it to be. Actually, the M35 was discontinued since 1942 and superseded by the M42. There was even an M45 model, I think, and a late experimental helmet which resembled the distinctly odd-looking post-war east-german steel helmet. However, of course they are correct in the above caption in their description of the M35 which was the standard steel pot until 1942. as regards the issue at hand, the M42 featured the same reinforced ventilation knobs and the absence of facepiece lugs ---- (btw pzvg are you sure your sig. is from confucius? that would be most interesting, because an ancient roman author coined a most similar phrase, "si tacuisses, philosophus fuisses" (if you had remained silent, you would have remained (regarded as) a philosopher). Don't remember if it was scipio or who else, it's been quite some time since I had that in school.) ------------------ "All i hear is the Iron Cross sucks etc. " (GAZ_NZ) [edited for typos] [This message has been edited by M Hofbauer (edited 09-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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