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kulik242

CMSF 1 free

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With CMSF 2 on the way, and CMSF 1 puled from the store, releasing CMSF 1 as freeware may be a good step to popularize BF wargames (and wargames in general). Any considerations?

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Never happen. It's still too good. The BFC team need to earn a living. The various demos ought to suffice for the purpose you identified.

In spite of their historical aversion to Steam, I have thought that to draw some new blood in from that huge gamer pool, BFC might put up a free multigame demo, with 4 company sized fights from, say:

1. CMSF2 (Germans, desert recce)

2. CMBS (industrial burbs, heavy tanks)

3. CMFB (Peiper's last gasp at Stoumont?)

4. CMFI (Canadian engineers at Ortona)

Scens 2 and 3 also playable H2H?

Of course, the game's dated engine and learning curve might not fare too well in the reviews of the shooter Twitch crowd.... 

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Do you find any reason to play it if it’s free? Would it be in any way entertaining? That’s called having value. Seems to me reasonable to expect to pay for something of value. 

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Never happen. It's still too good.      - It's still too good and therefore it should be sitting inaccessible on some server where nobody can enjoy it?

The BFC team need to earn a living.   - It's not going to make revenue since you can't purchase it anymore. 

The various demos ought to suffice for the purpose you identified.    - There's myriads of people who won't try the demo, but would try a free game. I myself haven't played any demos for years, but I usually try out games outside of my genre once they go free.

Do you find any reason to play it if it’s free? - Yes, I would play a good game even if its free. You probably mean why why would anyone play CMSF 1 once CMSF 2 is out? The answer being people who would not buy CMSF 2, but would try a free game. I myself discovered wargaming thorugh free Steel Panthers CD included in a gaming magazine, since then, I spend loads of money for wargames, but it may had never happen without the free Steel panthers game.

Would it be in any way entertaining? - Yes, despite its age, it's a solid game, I spent hundreds of hours playing it. 

Seems to me reasonable to expect to pay for something of value. - You can't pay for it anymore, its been puled from the store. Whatever value there is, it's lost if its inaccessible.

Edited by kulik242

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Because offering newcomers a high functioning *free* CMSF1 alternative to a $200+ CMSF2 with much the same content isn't good business for a niche company. Every sale these guys  lose to free hurts.

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Edited by LongLeftFlank

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I don't find this conversation boring at all.

In my opinion, people who would pay $200+ for a CMSF2 game aren't people who wouldn't do it if CMSF 1 gets free; i.e., people who discover CMSF 1 as a free game and would be reluctant to pay $200+ for a CMSF2 wouldn't buy it anyways. I see no loss there.   

Content wise, I wasn't talking about free CMSF 1 modules, even perhaps the free version could be tweaked to not support user made content. Just plain vanilla CMSF labeled *free*. (Then again, I remember the stock scenarios and campaigns weren't all that great compared to stuff that came later and this is about impressing people for the franchise.) Perhaps it could be released free like 6 months after CMSF 2 release, but I'm talking here about popularizing wargames and actually bring some new potential customers in. I see here opportunity.

 

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1 hour ago, kulik242 said:

You may identify these issues only after you play it for some time, at that point, you are probably hooked and willing to invest in CMSF 2 anyway.

you are expending a fair amount of effort on something BF is not going to do.  They haven't offer the CMx1 games free.  But hey it's your time, spend it however you like.  Just because it isn't on the store now does not necessarily mean it won't be.  I suspect the main reason it isn't there now is BF is giving a very special deal for current owners of CMSF and is not going to complicate that with folks trying to buy now knowing there will be a discount.  I would not be surprised if once the dust settles it returns to the store, but why anyone would buy it is beyond me.  

As to that $200+ figure that is getting tossed around  - the full package is only $120 just so we are setting the bar at the right height.  It is a significant difference - 40%

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3 hours ago, sburke said:

As to that $200+ figure that is getting tossed around  - the full package is only $120 just so we are setting the bar at the right height.  It is a significant difference - 40%

What was that … 40% discount? :o I thought BF didn't run sales? ;)

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8 hours ago, sburke said:

you are expending a fair amount of effort on something BF is not going to do ... But hey it's your time, spend it however you like.

Not really, I don't consider jotting down couple of sentences on the forum an "effort", it isn't taking up much time either. Then again I like CM games, so spending a little time caring is the least I can do. I even started a thread on the Bay12 forum in 2011 to promote CM games, took me couple of minutes, but it has been read 1796 times, so why not?

8 hours ago, sburke said:

They haven't offer the CMx1 games free.

CMx1 games still gets medial coverage, just three months ago there was a very entertaining communal let's play of CMBO on the Rock Paper Shotgun site, another one was a year ago. I can see how people may be still buying CMx1 titles, there is nothing like it on the market.

8 hours ago, sburke said:

...but why anyone would buy it is beyond me.

I concur, probably nobody would. That is why there may be other ways to use it.

8 hours ago, sburke said:

As to that $200+ figure that is getting tossed around  - the full package is only $120 just so we are setting the bar at the right height.  It is a significant difference - 40%

My bad, I used the figure LongLeftFlank used, without checking.

Well, if CMSF 1 is planed to return to the store, then it shouldn't go free of course. I'm saying there may be a way to use it better, giving out something for free is a very powerful marketing tool, even if its never happens, it may be worth considering or at least bringing it up. 

Edited by kulik242

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4 minutes ago, kulik242 said:

My bad, I used the figure LongLeftFlank used, without checking.

No worries, just wanted to correct that before the thread went too long

4 minutes ago, kulik242 said:

Well, if CMSF 1 is planed to return to the store, then it shouldn't go free of course. I'm saying there may be a way to use it better, giving out something for free is a very powerful marketing tool, even if it never happens, it may be worth considering or at least bringing it up. 

I don't know that it is, just a suspicion that it might.  As a marketing tool I don't think it has any more value than a demo and less value in that it doesn't just whet your appetite if it has so much material you don't really need to feel you have to buy a full game.

Edited by sburke

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2 hours ago, sburke said:

I don't know that it is, just a suspicion that it might.  As a marketing tool I don't think it has any more value than a demo and less value in that it doesn't just whet your appetite if it has so much material you don't really need to feel you have to buy a full game.

I agree that the demo suffices to provides enough game experience to the potential buyer to decide weather to buy the full game or not. It's just that people rarely try out demos of games outside of their preferred genre, plus there are other aspects, have a look here:

CIO site

Huffingtonpost

Time

...or just use "free" and "marketing" in google.

Edited by kulik242

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I'm reminded of 'free' World of Tanks that then nickels-and-dimes you at every turn until the more compulsive players wind up spending a fortune. Posters online talk of 'crippling costs' at the higher levels. I heard that title described as 'pay-to-win'. Funny how there's no decent info on what it ultimately costs to play the game all the way through.

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2 hours ago, MikeyD said:

I heard that title described as 'pay-to-win'.

Online games are all heading in that direction.  It exploits the same compulsiveness that players have when gambling.  But, it's not regulated like gambling - so it's quite a clever money making scheme.

Related:  Check out the stories behind Star Citizen.  Since development was started in 2011, fans have given that company almost 200 million US$(!) buying some of the dozens or hundreds of spacecraft that are available to develop this "dream game" they want so badly.  People can buy enuff higher end weaponry so that they can "pay to win".  But, after 8 years there is still no actual game that can be played - just lovely demos!  So, an even more brilliant scheme.  

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