Floating Icons

[Heirloom_Tomato]

Is there a way to turn the floating icons off completely for the enemy, no spotting icons, and leave them on for your troops? I tried cycling through the options in game and I don't think it is possible.

If there isn't a way to do this currently, am I the only weirdo who would like to see this added to the game?

[A Canadian Cat]

27 minutes ago, Heirloom_Tomato said:

Is there a way to turn the floating icons off completely for the enemy, no spotting icons, and leave them on for your troops? I tried cycling through the options in game and I don't think it is possible.

Not with the game settings no. One thing that you could consider is creating a set of icons that are totally transparent. Then you could swap in the red transparent icons when you play blue and visa versa.

27 minutes ago, Heirloom_Tomato said:

If there isn't a way to do this currently, am I the only weirdo who would like to see this added to the game?

Yep

[Heirloom_Tomato]

I would like to have the option to make it more difficult for me to remember where the enemy is at all times. With icons off, I find I miss the flashing notice of when my men are taking losses to much. With spotting contacts on, it can still feel like I am getting access to more information about the enemy than I should and can react in ways that may be considered unrealistic.  I feel my icons on and enemy icons off completely would be a happy balance.

[A Canadian Cat]

Oh I totally get what you are trying to do. Just teasing.

[Heirloom_Tomato]

3 minutes ago, IanL said:

Oh I totally get what you are trying to do. Just teasing.

Don't worry, my feelings were not hurt. 

[Bulletpoint]

40 minutes ago, Heirloom_Tomato said:

I would like to have the option to make it more difficult for me to remember where the enemy is at all times. With icons off, I find I miss the flashing notice of when my men are taking losses to much. With spotting contacts on, it can still feel like I am getting access to more information about the enemy than I should and can react in ways that may be considered unrealistic.  I feel my icons on and enemy icons off completely would be a happy balance.

I understand your wish for a more 'player limited' gamespace, but at the same time, those icons also tell you about the awareness level of your own units. By hiding the enemy icons, you would not be able to know when spotting information on enemy armour has trickled from your advance scouts to your tank destroyers.

[Heirloom_Tomato]

35 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

I understand your wish for a more 'player limited' gamespace, but at the same time, those icons also tell you about the awareness level of your own units. By hiding the enemy icons, you would not be able to know when spotting information on enemy armour has trickled from your advance scouts to your tank destroyers.

That is exactly what I am asking for. C2 is so important in game yet we don't actually need to rely on it because we the player can give the information to the units under our command with unrealistic orders. 

Using your example in a WEGO battle, scouts out front spot a tank. An icon for the tank pops up, your scouts relay the information along the C2 network.  End of the turn and you click on your TD to find out if the have contact marker, either way, you can start to issue them orders with the full knowledge, there is a tank in those trees and if they don't have a spot yet, by the time they get into position, they will.

With icons off, your scouts spot a tank and relay the info along the C2 network. Turn ends and you issue orders to your TD trusting C2 will have given them the spot by the time they complete their move. But wait, did YOU see the tank? If it is hard to see in the trees is it possible you missed it? Did you see the infantry moving along the fence row to the east instead? Without the icon to warn you, only the enemy you see with your own eyes, will you be able to react to. The TACAI is still going to do its thing. Your units will still fire as they see fit, just certain situations are going to develop where you may have missed key information. Recon, and with your own eyes, will be very important. 

[Bulletpoint]

34 minutes ago, Heirloom_Tomato said:

scouts out front spot a tank. An icon for the tank pops up, your scouts relay the information along the C2 network.  End of the turn and you click on your TD to find out if the have contact marker, either way, you can start to issue them orders with the full knowledge, there is a tank in those trees and if they don't have a spot yet, by the time they get into position, they will.

Yes but if they don't receive the spotting info on time, they will arrive and be sitting ducks for a long time before they spot anything... especially since a moving tank is nearly guaranteed to get spotted.

In real life, there's a commanding officer to coordinate these things. He knows there are enemy tanks out there somewhere. But he also knows whether or not they have been spotted yet, and whether or not his TDs have been made aware of their position. He can hold them back until he is positive that they got the necessary info to move in and strike.

34 minutes ago, Heirloom_Tomato said:

But wait, did YOU see the tank? If it is hard to see in the trees is it possible you missed it? Did you see the infantry moving along the fence row to the east instead? Without the icon to warn you, only the enemy you see with your own eyes, will you be able to react to.

True, but the graphics of CM are extremely limited compared to real life, and in the end you are only one player with one brain and one set of eyes. In real life, each soldier spots individually, and the combined info flows to the commander. In CM, we play different levels of command simultaneously, and the icons are an abstraction of the way situational awareness flows in a real combat situation.

But I agree with you that in many ways, we get too much info. And me posting here is not trying to say your wish is stupid, on the contrary I think it's interesting thinking about game modes that limit the situational awareness further. Just trying to add a couple of other perspectives on it.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Bulletpoint

[sburke]

6 hours ago, Heirloom_Tomato said:

Is there a way to turn the floating icons off completely for the enemy, no spotting icons, and leave them on for your troops? I tried cycling through the options in game and I don't think it is possible.

If there isn't a way to do this currently, am I the only weirdo who would like to see this added to the game?

Interesting idea, but as others noted it really limits your ability to play the game as units can't share info with you.  You'd have to first of all eyeball the entire battlespace every turn to figure out what you might have seen and if your units become aware of enemy movement you'll have no way to know.  The effect would be you moving units into position where they know something is likely there and you don't.  You are better off just imposing your own rules and moving units without utilizing knowledge they don't have.

[Heirloom_Tomato]

10 minutes ago, sburke said:

Interesting idea, but as others noted it really limits your ability to play the game as units can't share info with you.  You'd have to first of all eyeball the entire battlespace every turn to figure out what you might have seen and if your units become aware of enemy movement you'll have no way to know.  The effect would be you moving units into position where they know something is likely there and you don't.

This just happened to me in a pbem I am playing where I am trying to play with all icons off. I lost two AFV's in one turn due to missing some critical information. When I reloaded the previous turn and had icons on.... yeah I wouldn't have given the orders I did. 

I agree it won't make the game any easier or less frustrating.  We have three options right now and if it is easy to add a fourth, and I am not saying it would be, but if it was, it would be fun to have the option.

[JoMac]

Yeah, I'm that PBEM Opponent, and will try the 'Contact Only' Icons on next Game to see how it plays out...

I remember participating in a Thread or three (one might have been mine) regarding how easy it is to spot certain types of targets/postures in CMx2 (which also happened back CMx1). Example: I watch time after time at beginning of a Meeting Engagement how my moving Inf or Armor (doesn't matter if I'm running in opposite direction or through concealment) spot enemy moving Inf or Armor several hundred meters away (open, concealment...doesn't matter) in just one Second of being in LOS (not in one Minute or so that I would expect in RL). This, Of course, leads to unrealistic results that players can use to determine their following turns move, etc...Thou, for the most part, it does seem realistic enough that Hidden Units, or even Units firing for a short time don't get spotted immediately.

Now, sburke, did suggest, (which I've been in process of doing) to use some sort of 'House Rules' (as others are using) to help alleviate a little these above issues (Command Delays, etc).

Edited August 12, 2018 by JoMc67

[Bulletpoint]

9 minutes ago, JoMc67 said:

Example: I watch time after time at beginning of a Meeting Engagement how my moving Inf or Armor spot enemy moving Inf or Armor several hundred meters away in just one Second of being in LOS (not in one Minute or so that I would expect in RL).

I think there is an issue in the game where moving units are possibly too easily spotted, even though of course in real life, it's easier to spot something that moves. But I feel it might be a bit over the top currently.

I've seen many cases of tanks moving slowly into a very good hull down position, yet get spotted after about 20 seconds at 800-1000m distance, despite misty conditions.

Of course feelings and anecdotal evidence don't go very far, but that's my impression for what it's worth.

[JoMac]

45 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

I think there is an issue in the game where moving units are possibly too easily spotted, even though of course in real life, it's easier to spot something that moves. But I feel it might be a bit over the top currently.

I've seen many cases of tanks moving slowly into a very good hull down position, yet get spotted after about 20 seconds at 800-1000m distance, despite misty conditions.

Of course feelings and anecdotal evidence don't go very far, but that's my impression for what it's worth.

Oh, and completely agree...You go outside, and walk around the corner of your house, do you think your going to spot a person 500 meters away moving in open (let alone cover) in just a Second or Three...No, but might if scanning the landscape for a minute. 

And, I only use 'Mist' (ever since CMBN) to represent Clear Weather (unless I'm using Fog or Light Rain to represent Bad Weather) in my games to try and help this issue some, but doesn't do much.

Anyways, yeah, if BF did increase the time it takes to spot units at longer ranges (longer spotting cycles, etc), then that might work better...Thou, it might mess-up the fundamental way how BF uses the Spotting System.

 

Edited August 12, 2018 by JoMc67

[A Canadian Cat]

What you guys are saying is not wrong. But I wish to point out this is a game and as such a balance needs to be stuck to allow playability. When looking at actual combat footage the enemy are completely unseen at all times more times than visible. If we truly got 100% realistic we would not enjoy playing. IMHO.

[Michael Emrys]

5 hours ago, JoMc67 said:

You go outside, and walk around the corner of your house, do you think your going to spot a person 500 meters away moving in open (let alone cover) in just a Second or Three...

Since you  ask, yes. Movement always catches my eye more or less instantly even if I am not focussed on that part of the field. On the other hand, it might take me a few or several seconds to identify what I am looking at. How this would compare to the average soldier during battle, I don't know.

Michael