CMSF2 New Belligerent ?

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Amen to that.....BF might want to start to think about their what customers want for a change, or they might find they don't have any.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Sgt.Squarehead

[A Canadian Cat]

Well that is some solid arrogance there. What you are really saying is "BFC had better start listening to *me*. Otherwise they might not have any customers any more."

Guys make requests, that is a good thing. But man hold the bile there. If does not improve your chances at all and makes the environment here worse.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

No Ian, that's how the world works.....Customers have expectations, if you persistently fail to meet them (or in BF's 'little minions' case, rudely belittle them) those customers will spend their money elsewhere. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Sgt.Squarehead

[sburke]

51 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

No Ian, that's how the world works.....Customers have expectations, if you persistently fail to meet them (or in BF's 'little minions' case, rudely belittle them) those customers will spend their money elsewhere. 

Customer (singular) has expectations is more like it.  And that little minions message was uncalled for. 

[sburke]

5 hours ago, LongLeftFlank said:

Wow, aren't you just *full* of Cheery Waffle(R) these days, SB!  Got me slitting my wrists here (metaphorically).

At this point I'm starting to wonder whether a mod of CMBS might not end up having better potential for simming modern asymmetric infantry warfare than the SF reboot. Heck, we few Uncon deplorables could have pulled that one together years ago. And yes, with IEDs. Maybe even suicide belts.

And we could get Russians and Syrians/Iraqis (modded Ukes) fighting ISIS/Chechens in a 2018 setting too.

*With* all the building options!

Yeah I know, sorry man. I feel like the downer guy at a party trying to keep people using coasters at my parent’s house while they are out. 

[MOS:96B2P]

To be fair, CMSF1 is an excellent game.  To have it brought up to Engine 4.0 standard with almost all the features of the other CM games is great.  CMSF also has it's own unique features: Uncons, spies, IEDs, VBIEDs, the different nationalities etc.  CMSF2 will rock and we will be able to create a lot of cool scenarios with it.  After CMSF is at the 4.0 standard it would hopefully be possible/easier to add packs to it.  Maybe BFC will consider adding more content.  Maybe some of this content will include independent buildings and other items that don't make it into the CMSF2 initial release.  In any case CMSF2 will be great and maybe the best of the CMx2 titles.     

@sburke there are way more cans of beer than coasters..........  

Edited August 6, 2018 by MOS:96B2P

[Sequoia]

Nah, parties at Burke's have bottled beer only and it's the good stuff.

I do have to smile at myself though at the fact the game isn't even released and here I am wanting even MORE CONTENT! It's a completest thing I guess.  

 

[sburke]

Wrong I believe in beer on tap!  The wine however is in bottles. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by sburke

[Lethaface]

1 hour ago, sburke said:

Yeah I know, sorry man. I feel like the downer guy at a party trying to keep people using coasters at my parent’s house while they are out. 

Don't worry too much about it. It might spoil your party, while neither your parents nor the visitors will remember this instance of the somewhat regularly recurring parties after a couple of months. Just worry about the drinks.

[Erwin]

3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

No Ian, that's how the world works.....Customers have expectations, if you persistently fail to meet them (or in BF's 'little minions' case, rudely belittle them) those customers will spend their money elsewhere. 

Seriously SS, you are a talented bloke designing missions. If you list the reasons that you have a hard time completing development of your own scenarios and campaigns and multiply that by (say) 1000, that might help in understanding the challenges facing BF. 

[Combatintman]

3 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

To be fair, CMSF1 is an excellent game.  To have it brought up to Engine 4.0 standard with almost all the features of the other CM games is great.  CMSF also has it's own unique features: Uncons, spies, IEDs, VBIEDs, the different nationalities etc.  CMSF2 will rock and we will be able to create a lot of cool scenarios with it.  After CMSF is at the 4.0 standard it would hopefully be possible/easier to add packs to it.  Maybe BFC will consider adding more content.  Maybe some of this content will include independent buildings and other items that don't make it into the CMSF2 initial release.  In any case CMSF2 will be great and maybe the best of the CMx2 titles.     

@sburke there are way more cans of beer than coasters..........  

Pretty much this …. combined with the fact that we have a pretty good idea of what we're getting. So why not see what is possible in the editor when the title is released before making judgements?

[A Canadian Cat]

7 hours ago, sburke said:

Customer (singular) has expectations is more like it. 

Saddly

6 hours ago, sburke said:

Yeah I know, sorry man. I feel like the downer guy at a party trying to keep people using coasters at my parent’s house while they are out. 

LOL, it is like that.

6 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

To be fair, CMSF1 is an excellent game.  To have it brought up to Engine 4.0 standard with almost all the features of the other CM games is great.  

Exactly. BFC hears our desires and makes decisions on content based on that. 

[A Canadian Cat]

8 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

 'little minions' case, rudely belittle them

Man you must live a pretty sheltered life if you think that is what belittling looks like.

[sburke]

5 minutes ago, IanL said:

Man you must live a pretty sheltered life if you think that is what belittling looks like.

why when I was a boy we would belittle people uphill both ways in the snow! And we'd like it!

[Battlefront.com]

8 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

No Ian, that's how the world works.....Customers have unreasonable expectations

There, I fixed that for you.

This is the age old problem of a customer thinking that there is such thing as a single customer group that we have to please.  A group that is entirely consistent with its requests and keeps them within bounds of practicality.  I'm sooner likely to see a leprechaun riding a unicorn while spreading world peace before I ever see a customer group that fits that description!

Yup, people want us to do more with CMSF2.  French or Italian forces would likely win a popular vote over more Uncon options, BTW.  We very clearly stated that CMSF1 would not expand beyond it's original form (though we have "cheated" in a few places to include more).  Therefore, customer expectations for expanding CMSF1 are unrealistic and there's not much we can do about that.  Just like all the CM1 fans who found out that CMSF1 was going to be modern and not Normandy based were being unreasonable when they "expected" us to change course and chuck CMSF aside.  You know, because modern warfare is boring and a waste of everybody's time.  Are you saying we should have listened to them?

Steve

[BletchleyGeek]

1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said:

Are you saying we should have listened to them?

Maybe. That would have probably made the transition from CM1 into CM2 smoother, as you guys would have gathered more experience with the 2.0 engine out in the wilds, teething it out and having a baseline of sorts, while staying in a familiar subject matter. On the other hand, that may have had the effect to preempt you from getting so deep into modern contemporary warfare. Also I think that always trying the same old is boring

[MikeyD]

Do you know what the most 'successful' CM product launch was (based on my observation)? CMFI. Because its existence was kept a strict secret up until its launch. It came as a delightful surprise to everyone. There was no time for people to build up a fantasy game in their heads to compare the finished product against. If you imagined there was going to be Afghani mujahideen in a 2007 Syrian title its not BFC's fault that you're disappointed. Why would you ever think there'd be mujahideen in the title? You might as well wish for Mad Max road warrior vehicles too.

[BletchleyGeek]

7 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

You might as well wish for Mad Max road warrior vehicles too.

Some excellent stuff over here

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=improvised+armored+vehicle+syria&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=bPdHi3vPqk37_M%3A%2CF1XJQHUub3HFSM%2C_&usg=AFrqEzfm8RkMI6R2aNLJ3SwchDNjTp8VAA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjVsOTcydncAhVIQLwKHamuDAUQ9QEwAXoECAEQBg#imgrc=bPdHi3vPqk37_M:

Complaining about people not managing expectations is like complaining about dogs taking a poop on a carpet. It happens, unless extreme conditioning is applied on the subjects

[LongLeftFlank]

A lot of people strawmanning and talking past each other here, and then the usual dismissive hand waving pile-on. And as a special bonus,  longstanding community contributors become dogs pooping on the carpet.  Nice. [Slow clap]  OK, I think this has run its course.

Best of luck with the release, BFC.

[BletchleyGeek]

2 minutes ago, LongLeftFlank said:

And as a special bonus,  longstanding community contributors become dogs pooping on the carpet.  Nice. [Slow clap]  OK, I think this has run its course

Do you do that per chance? In any case, if you felt somehow identified, here are my excuses - it was a humorous remark not a handwave or a pile on.

Have a good day there in Manila.

[Destraex1]

Actually one of the things I remember being disappointed about in CMSF1 was that I felt like I had all this cool western kit and was fighting less capable enemy forces.
A cold war scenario with West vs PACT would have been interesting. However it is what it is. I must ask as well. Will the AI this time around be less reliant on the map designer?

Be very interested to see the list of what is different from CMSF1. I love the fact that you guys keep updating the previous games to the latest engine. It makes me happy to know that when I load an older combat mission cmx2 game I am playing the latest and greatest feature set. I cannot over state this. 

[Battlefront.com]

48 minutes ago, BletchleyGeek said:

Maybe. That would have probably made the transition from CM1 into CM2 smoother, as you guys would have gathered more experience with the 2.0 engine out in the wilds, teething it out and having a baseline of sorts, while staying in a familiar subject matter. On the other hand, that may have had the effect to preempt you from getting so deep into modern contemporary warfare. Also I think that always trying the same old is boring

My intention was not to re-litigate long ago decisions (which, BTW, I still have no doubts was the right way to go), but rather to point out it's bad form to chide us for not listening to customers when that is, by a narrow definition, why CMSF exists in the first place. If someone wants anything other than the lowest common denominator products and features from us, they should really be advising us to NOT listen to customers.  Seriously.

Steve

[LongLeftFlank]

No worries, BG. Every participant in this discussion has made great contributions and is worthy of respect. And we know nobody is working harder right now than the beta testers.

"I have a lot of faults, Brad, but ingratitude isn't one of them."

[Battlefront.com]

12 minutes ago, Destraex1 said:

Be very interested to see the list of what is different from CMSF1. I love the fact that you guys keep updating the previous games to the latest engine. It makes me happy to know that when I load an older combat mission cmx2 game I am playing the latest and greatest feature set. I cannot over state this. 

Thanks for that!  The single biggest reason CMSF2 is taking so long is we wanted to give you CMSF1 players everything at once.  We thought you'd go nuts if you only got one release at a time since most of you have at least 1 Module, if not 3.  Turned out it was a lot more work to do 4 games' worth of content all in one go than we thought it would be.  Still, I think I'd rather release at once later than release in pieces sooner.

Steve

[LongLeftFlank]

For what it's worth Steve, I think that's absolutely the right commercial decision. A piecemeal release won't get the results you need, and have richly earned.