Antony Beevor's view on War Films

[Erwin]

3 hours ago, Sublime said:

the Poles had the highest scoring Battle of Britain squadron

Glad that was noted.  Not a lot of folks know that.   

Of course being crazy Poles they were shooting down Spitfires most of the time.  (Disclaimer:  I have Polish heritage, so I am allowed to make jokes like that. You would be a racist!)  

Here's one of my favorite Polish news stories:  "4 seater light plane crashes into graveyard.  53 bodies recovered and still counting."

 

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Erwin

[Warts 'n' all]

I wouldn't say "no" to an Anglo-Polish movie about 303 Squadron.

[Sublime]

Id really like to see more of a BoB or Pacific type series either based perhaps on 303 sqn or a bomber crew. Any side if it was realistic afaik.

I also think the format would work really well covering a U Boat crews' journey. For a less bleak ending cover US subs in the PTO. ( We all know we really want the UBoat =p )

[DerKommissar]

I very much enjoyed Das Boot, even though that one had its share of historical inaccuracies, as well. Generation Kill and Blackhawk Down were also very well made. I also love FMJ and Paths of Glory.

The way I see it, a well-made film/series is a well-made film/series. I can enjoy a well-made film/series and not worry too much about the details. This being said, usually when people invest significant time and effort into a project, they try to get the details right.

@Sublime Check out Das Boot miniseries, if you haven't already. That "format" is spot on.

[Erwin]

2 hours ago, Sublime said:

covering a U Boat crews' journey.

You mean like Das Boot?    

[Sublime]

21 hours ago, Erwin said:

You mean like Das Boot?    

Yes except in the format of 1hr episodes and like say a 10 episode season. Das Boot is long and excellent but imagine how much more fleshed out it could have been

 

@DerKommissar Very well aware of it. Directors cut in German is the way to go. And yes I know it initially was on tv. I just meant something that has more the length of some of these modern hbo productions.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Sublime

[Erwin]

Das Boot is/was a TV series.  It was re-edited for theatrical release.   https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081834/

"It has been exhibited both as a theatrical release and as a TV miniseries (1985), in several different home video versions of various running times, and in a longer director's cut version supervised by Petersen in 1997."

Edited June 20, 2018 by Erwin

[Sublime]

4 hours ago, Sublime said:

-snip-....... And yes I know it initially was on tv. -snip- 

 

[DerKommissar]

IDK, my good man. I watched a lot of HBO. I generally really like HBO. One of their failings, is that they let their TV series go on for too long (not as long as AMC's, sheesh!). The plot becomes watered down, stakes become stale, and all the magic is gone. Soprano's last season, as well as all the Game of Thrones seasons after the third one (I swear, they make one every year!), Boardwalk Empire should have ended after the 2nd season, I don't think Westworld needed another season.

Das Boot is a tight, little, neat miniseries. It's exactly as long as it needs to be. I do not think it or any other similar miniseries (BoB or Pacific) would benefit from the inflation of a full modern production. Be careful what you wish for, as they would inject it with increasingly more filler that turns a movie-level episode into a soap opera-level episode.

The only glaring exception is Rome. Rome ran for two beautiful seasons and got denied a third act.

[MOS:96B2P]

3 minutes ago, DerKommissar said:

The only glaring exception is Rome. Rome ran for two beautiful seasons and got denied a third act.

+1  Rome was a very interesting show. 

[Aragorn2002]

Knightfall (about the Templars) and Last Kingdom (BBC) are also pretty good.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Aragorn2002

[DerKommissar]

2 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

+1  Rome was a very interesting show. 

What a splendid cast, eh? I can't imagine the historical figures, without thinking of their corresponding actor in that show.

I think it's a must watch for people who are into history. I can't vouch for its accuracy, as ancient history is a tangled ball of old documents and myth. It did feel more authentic than most films about the late Republic, early Imperial period.

[MOS:96B2P]

5 minutes ago, DerKommissar said:

I think it's a must watch for people who are into history. I can't vouch for its accuracy, as ancient history is a tangled ball of old documents and myth. It did feel more authentic than most films about the late Republic, early Imperial period.

I agree.  The Centurion dude was like Forrest Gump in that he showed up at almost every historical event  .  In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I may try to find it and watch it again.     

[Badger73]

1 hour ago, MOS:96B2P said:

I agree.  The Centurion dude was like Forrest Gump in that he showed up at almost every historical event  .  In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I may try to find it and watch it again.     

Yep, Centurio Lucius Vorenus.  My favorite quote of his is when his wife asks, "What's wrong?" and he responds, "I have pledged my honor to a man who has none."

[Sublime]

Oooh was Rome that good? I need to check it out then I never watched that one.

[Erwin]

1 hour ago, DerKommissar said:

Das Boot is a tight, little, neat miniseries. It's exactly as long as it needs to be.

Agreed...

Will check out Rome, Knightfall and Last Kingdom.   (Do they feature SS troops or subs?)   

Edited June 21, 2018 by Erwin

[Badger73]

1 hour ago, Sublime said:

Oooh was Rome that good? I need to check it out then I never watched that one.

Yes, indeed; exceptional actually.  First scene of first episode shows exactly and correctly how legionaries rotated files from front rank to back in close combat.  The adult content including nudity throughout the series also captures Roman pre-Christian sentiment and values very accurately

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

Agreed...

Will check out Rome, Knightfall and Last Kingdom.   (Do they feature SS troops or subs?)   

In my opinion, History channel's "Vikings" (available on Netflix) is far superior to both "Knightfall" and "Last Kingdom".

[Aragorn2002]

7 minutes ago, Badger73 said:

Yes, indeed; exceptional actually.  First scene of first episode shows exactly and correctly how legionaries rotated files from front rank to back in close combat.  The adult content including nudity throughout the series also captures Roman pre-Christian sentiment and values very accurately

In my opinion, History channel's "Vikings" (available on Netflix) is far superior to both "Knightfall" and "Last Kingdom".

I totally agree. Vikings rules!

Edited June 21, 2018 by Aragorn2002

[DerKommissar]

40 minutes ago, Badger73 said:

Yes, indeed; exceptional actually.  First scene of first episode shows exactly and correctly how legionaries rotated files from front rank to back in close combat.  The adult content including nudity throughout the series also captures Roman pre-Christian sentiment and values very accurately

In my opinion, History channel's "Vikings" (available on Netflix) is far superior to both "Knightfall" and "Last Kingdom".

That's the part sets Rome apart from most other films about Roman history. It was downright filthy and miserable. Compared to the clean pressed togas and shining marble streets that Rome is associated with. I think a lot of reasons why Game of Thrones was as successful as it is, is because HBO was coming into it, right off Rome.

I've had Vikings recommended to me. Looking at the various posters posted around, the vikings in Vikings didn't look very "viking". The costumes, make-up and hair-dos looked too modern. Why are these northerners not wearing hats?

Again, not a history major here, and I am quite literally judging a TV show by its cover. If it's anywhere as good as Rome, it's surely worth a watch.

[Bearstronaut]

8 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

IDK, my good man. I watched a lot of HBO. I generally really like HBO. One of their failings, is that they let their TV series go on for too long (not as long as AMC's, sheesh!). The plot becomes watered down, stakes become stale, and all the magic is gone. Soprano's last season, as well as all the Game of Thrones seasons after the third one (I swear, they make one every year!), Boardwalk Empire should have ended after the 2nd season, I don't think Westworld needed another season.

 

To be fair, Game of Thrones is an adaptation of a book series. They couldn't just end it in the middle of the series. Although, I will say that the quality of the show decreased sharply after they outpaced George R. R. Martin's writing.

[LongLeftFlank]

This thread is really wandering around here.

(I've peeked back in to take a break from the banshee howls AAAAAGH! THE CHILDREN! THE CHILDREN! presently inundating my other boards and socmedia [/politics] ) 

Realistic cinema combat data dump:

Estonian film '1944' came up recently, uneven tactically, but not too bad.

Agree re "319 Platoon" being the gold standard. The 1990s Dien Bien Phu epic has some great scenes as well which seem right out of the memoirs (flamethrowers on Eliane 2, plus fighter bombers at zero height).

"Battleground" is probably the best thing Hollywood has done, helped by the fact many of the actors and extras had seen the real deal not long before.

I watched an ANZACs in Vietnam film 'The Odd Angry Shot' on VCR 30 years ago and remember being impressed, but I don't know how it's held up.

"Black Hawk Down" tried hard to get the events right, I think, although I doubt the battlefield was quite that crowded the whole time....

The Danish film "A War" seems like the most authentic film to have come out of the GWOT.

The Army attack on Burpelson AFB in 'Dr Strangelove'  featured some very realistic faux newsreel combat footage,  interspersed with @General Jack Ripper's epic dialogue with Group Captain Mandrake. Too bad Kubrick never tried this technique elsewhere.

A little known Jimmy Stewart film, "the Mountain Road" has a very intense, visceral (for Hollywood) scene where  vengeful Americans massacre Chinese bandits holed up in a tavern at an accurate combat range and fire tempo. Stewart was another actor who'd seen the sharp end.

The 'Sand Pebbles' is just a fantastic film in general, on my Top 10 list, but the assault on the KMT pontoon barrier and the shootout at the end are pretty good tactically. ("What the hell happened?!")  Candace Burgen is just so heartbreakingly beautiful; they broke the mould on that lady.

Edited June 22, 2018 by LongLeftFlank

[Sublime]

2 hours ago, LongLeftFlank said:

This thread is really wandering around here.

(I've peeked back in to take a break from the banshee howls AAAAAGH! THE CHILDREN! THE CHILDREN! presently inundating my other boards and socmedia [/politics] ) 

Realistic cinema combat data dump:

Estonian film '1944' came up recently, uneven tactically, but not too bad.

Agree re "319 Platoon" being the gold standard. The 1990s Dien Bien Phu epic has some great scenes as well which seem right out of the memoirs (flamethrowers on Eliane 2, plus fighter bombers at zero height).

"Battleground" is probably the best thing Hollywood has done, helped by the fact many of the actors and extras had seen the real deal not long before.

I watched an ANZACs in Vietnam film 'The Odd Angry Shot' on VCR 30 years ago and remember being impressed, but I don't know how it's held up.

"Black Hawk Down" tried hard to get the events right, I think, although I doubt the battlefield was quite that crowded the whole time....

The Danish film "A War" seems like the most authentic film to have come out of the GWOT.

The Army attack on Burpelson AFB in 'Dr Strangelove'  featured some very realistic faux newsreel combat footage,  interspersed with @General Jack Ripper's epic dialogue with Group Captain Mandrake. Too bad Kubrick never tried this technique elsewhere.

A little known Jimmy Stewart film, "the Mountain Road" has a very intense, visceral (for Hollywood) scene where  vengeful Americans massacre Chinese bandits holed up in a tavern at an accurate combat range and fire tempo. Stewart was another actor who'd seen the sharp end.

The 'Sand Pebbles' is just a fantastic film in general, on my Top 10 list, but the assault on the KMT pontoon barrier and the shootout at the end are pretty good tactically. ("What the hell happened?!")  Candace Burgen is just so heartbreakingly beautiful; they broke the mould on that lady.

I always loved Gen Rippers monologues to Mandrake in Strangelove. Youre right to the overrunnimg of the base was done just right so it felt real.

Greatest thing ever when he goes to his golf bag and pulls the .30 cal out.

Thanks for the recommendation on Rome Im going to check it out

[DerKommissar]

5 hours ago, LongLeftFlank said:

This thread is really wandering around here.

(I've peeked back in to take a break from the banshee howls AAAAAGH! THE CHILDREN! THE CHILDREN! presently inundating my other boards and socmedia [/politics] ) 

Realistic cinema combat data dump:

Estonian film '1944' came up recently, uneven tactically, but not too bad.

Agree re "319 Platoon" being the gold standard. The 1990s Dien Bien Phu epic has some great scenes as well which seem right out of the memoirs (flamethrowers on Eliane 2, plus fighter bombers at zero height).

"Battleground" is probably the best thing Hollywood has done, helped by the fact many of the actors and extras had seen the real deal not long before.

I watched an ANZACs in Vietnam film 'The Odd Angry Shot' on VCR 30 years ago and remember being impressed, but I don't know how it's held up.

"Black Hawk Down" tried hard to get the events right, I think, although I doubt the battlefield was quite that crowded the whole time....

The Danish film "A War" seems like the most authentic film to have come out of the GWOT.

The Army attack on Burpelson AFB in 'Dr Strangelove'  featured some very realistic faux newsreel combat footage,  interspersed with @General Jack Ripper's epic dialogue with Group Captain Mandrake. Too bad Kubrick never tried this technique elsewhere.

A little known Jimmy Stewart film, "the Mountain Road" has a very intense, visceral (for Hollywood) scene where  vengeful Americans massacre Chinese bandits holed up in a tavern at an accurate combat range and fire tempo. Stewart was another actor who'd seen the sharp end.

The 'Sand Pebbles' is just a fantastic film in general, on my Top 10 list, but the assault on the KMT pontoon barrier and the shootout at the end are pretty good tactically. ("What the hell happened?!")  Candace Burgen is just so heartbreakingly beautiful; they broke the mould on that lady.

Wizards had some realistic battle sequences. xD

I liked the bombers in Dr Strangelove. That felt authentic.

Edited June 22, 2018 by DerKommissar

[General Jack Ripper]

I did make a fanedit of all of General Ripper's scenes in Dr. Strangelove, here: https://www.minds.com/media/700851614881161220

[Doc844]

Rome was a good series but it wandered away from accuracy at times, the notion that romans were hedonistic and always up for orgies is mis-placed more so for the powerful families.  (Spartacus is utter pish as a view into the roman world, gladiators generally didnt kill each other at games, they were atheletes and very expensive to train and pay).  They were actually very conservative and dignitas ruled all, men of power would never compromise their dignitas for anything and that included going against the mos maorium in regards to morals.  Also my big bug bear is how they badly miscast Ceaser, of all the descriptions of the man, athletic, lithe, with golden/blonde hair and they cast an overweight saggy actor with black bloody hair.  It also shows women as being major players which on the whole is untrue, women were seen as being assets to their family in regards to who they could be married off to so as to forge alliances or marry into money, see old Ceaser marrying his daughter Julia to Marius and thus changing the fortunes of the family Juliia.  Phew didnt mean to go on.  Still a very good series and worth a watch.