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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Sequoia said:

Anyway if I can re-ask one question I posted above which really isn't directly a game question, but what sort of shore bombardment capability did the US Navy have in 2008 to support a Marine landing?

The year is 2008:

Technically FO´s and FAC´s still being taught the rudimentary basics of calling in Naval Gunfire Support (NGFS) and Marines have officers assigned being Naval Gunfire liasons (NGLO) but they in reality have other responsibilites then handling NGFS.

Most large calibre ships got decommissioned and even though most modern ships technically would have the ability to bombard a shore, most of the demand would be met by missiles (Tomahawk) or by CAS provided from nearby air bases or a carrier/expeditionary strike group.

Edited by MANoWAR.U51

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

For me personally, the introduction of the Ammo Dump option, is problematical.  :unsure:

I'd been using a manual 'dismount 'em & delete 'em in the editor' technique to cross-crew a variety of wheeled vehicles, but in the newer game engine this isn't possible....The vehicles turn into Ammo Dumps.  :(

As it stands the older game will still be the better option for modelling alternative storylines, almost none of the core unit files I've created will work in the new engine.....No more HMMWVs for ISIS, for instance.  :o

LlwprX5.jpg

No US personnel are in any of these HMMWVs.....They came from a supply platoon, I deleted crews 1-3 in the editor and their CO is the 'Unused US Unit' (set to a post battle reinforcement slot).....Can this be done in the new engine?

Core file is here if you want to load it up in the new game (suspect what you will see is a large supply dump):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eilrls8vn9pzapo/ISIS Patrol Test.btt?dl=0

If it actually can be done, nobody will be happier than me.  ;)

Really great idea, do you plan to release a campaign including this constellation?

Edited by MANoWAR.U51

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1 hour ago, MANoWAR.U51 said:

Technically FO´s and FAC´s still being taught the rudimentary basics of calling in Naval Gunfire Support (NGFS) and Marines have officers assigned being Naval Gunfire liasons (NGLO) but they in reality have other responsibilites then handling NGFS.

Field Artillery officers in the Army are still taught how to use naval gunfire support. Not sure about 13F's though. 

1 hour ago, MANoWAR.U51 said:

Most large calibre ships got decommissioned and even though most modern ships technically would have the ability to bombard a shore, most of the demand would be met by missiles (Tomahawk) or by CAS provided from nearby air bases or a carrier/expeditionary strike group.

21 hours ago, Sequoia said:

Anyway if I can re-ask one question I posted above which really isn't directly a game question, but what sort of shore bombardment capability did the US Navy have in 2008 to support a Marine landing?

MANoWAR basically covered it. The Navy only has 127mm deck guns, unless they pull some of the battleships back into service. The 127mm deck guns are capable of providing naval gunfire support, but most naval support comes in the form of tomahawk TLAM missiles or CAS from carrier based aircraft. Generally speaking, the tomahawk is not a tactical battlefield support weapon. 

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@MikeyD Nice, that makes 4 of us. My word, Presque Isle is a ways out there. I've only been up that way once, and I've lived here most of my 35 years. I always kind of figured wargaming would have to be popular, with the long winters and all. If you don't like winter sports your options are that are the other state pass time, Allens Coffee Brandy.

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8 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

For me personally, the introduction of the Ammo Dump option, is problematical.  :unsure:

I'd been using a manual 'dismount 'em & delete 'em in the editor' technique to cross-crew a variety of wheeled vehicles, but in the newer game engine this isn't possible....The vehicles turn into Ammo Dumps.  :(

As it stands the older game will still be the better option for modelling alternative storylines, almost none of the core unit files I've created will work in the new engine.....No more HMMWVs for ISIS, for instance.  :o

LlwprX5.jpg

No US personnel are in any of these HMMWVs.....They came from a supply platoon, I deleted crews 1-3 in the editor and their CO is the 'Unused US Unit' (set to a post battle reinforcement slot).....Can this be done in the new engine?

Core file is here if you want to load it up in the new game (suspect what you will see is a large supply dump):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eilrls8vn9pzapo/ISIS Patrol Test.btt?dl=0

If it actually can be done, nobody will be happier than me.  ;)

It can't be done the way you used to do it, but as I suggested before there may be other methods.  For example.  You buy the supply platoon.  You go to deploy units, you dismount the US troops and go stick them somewhere they are useless, like a building a room with no exits ( @MOS:96B2P did this in his TOC scenario) and you mount your insurgents - voila you now have insurgents in US Humvees.  Yes I tried it, yes it works.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MANoWAR.U51 said:

Really great idea, do you plan to release a campaign including this constellation?

D'ya wanna play 'em.....Or kill 'em?  ;)

If it's the latter, try here (single CM:SF scenario): 

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tpg2/cm-shock-force/cmsf-ashsh-al-dababir-the-hornets-nest/

Beginning to think I might have to try to make a campaign out of the original after all.  :rolleyes:

46 minutes ago, sburke said:

It can't be done the way you used to do it, but as I suggested before there may be other methods.  You go to deploy units, you dismount the US troops and go stick them somewhere they are useless, like a building a room with no exits ( @MOS:96B2P did this in his TOC scenario) and you mount your insurgents - voila you now have insurgents in US Humvees.  Yes I tried it, yes it works.

Could you make a simple demo file of your technique in one of the other Engine 4 games please, so that I can take a look at what you did?  B)

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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9 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

D'ya wanna play 'em.....Or kill 'em?  ;)

Could you make a simple demo file of your technique in one of the other Engine 4 games please, so that I can take a look at what you did?  B)

interestingly I can't..... 

In CMBS if I use this method the US teams simply show up back in the vehicle even if you deploy them elsewhere.  As CMSF2 isn't done yet I can't guarantee this will work once released, but what I did was

1 buy red units

2 go to mission data and set to blue vs blue

3 go back to red units and buy humvees

4 deploy red units - dismount US soldiers, mount insurgents in US vehicles

5 go back to mission data and set to blue vs red

Save

When opened as a battle now the insurgents are in the US vehicles and the US crews are hanging out wherever you set them

 

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Posted (edited)

That's what used to happen and it's what I tried in RT, as you discovered it didn't work.

If I can just get the little b******s out of the vehicles I'm sorted thanks to  @MOS:96B2P.....Simply place 'em on an Exit Zone, outside of a setup area and they should be gone!  ;)

Wanna try it for me, maybe enquire what the situation with the finished product will be.....Having both 'Supply-Dump' and 'Dismounted' as possible Vehicle Condition options would still be a much better solution in the long run though. 

 

Edited by Sgt.Squarehead

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1 hour ago, Sequoia said:

@ Manowar & Captain Miller do LHAs/LHDs have Cobra Gunships for  landing support?

Typically a Marine Expeditionary Units air wing has both Cobra Gunships and Harriers. There are also Marine Corps squadrons flying F-18's that are part of a carrier air wing. So for a full on opposed landing operation, you could expect all three assets (Cobras, Harriers and F-18s) to be providing support, among other assets such as naval gunfire support, tomahawk strikes, etc. 

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59 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

That's what used to happen and it's what I tried in RT, as you discovered it didn't work.

If I can just get the little b******s out of the vehicles I'm sorted thanks to  @MOS:96B2P.....Simply place 'em on an Exit Zone, outside of a setup area and they should be gone!  ;)

Wanna try it for me, maybe enquire what the situation with the finished product will be.....Having both 'Supply-Dump' and 'Dismounted' as possible Vehicle Condition options would still be a much better solution in the long run though. 

 

no you missed what I said.  It did not work in CMBS.  It did work in CMSF2.  Will it still work when released?  No idea. And sorry I don't think it is appropriate for me to be pushing an item like that with BF.  It will be what it will be and anything further is likely going to get me spanked.  I may even be over the line already.  :P Still I will keep my fingers crossed for ya.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Sequoia said:

@ Manowar & Captain Miller do LHAs/LHDs have Cobra Gunships for  landing support?

 

5 hours ago, IICptMillerII said:

Typically a Marine Expeditionary Units air wing has both Cobra Gunships and Harriers. There are also Marine Corps squadrons flying F-18's that are part of a carrier air wing. So for a full on opposed landing operation, you could expect all three assets (Cobras, Harriers and F-18s) to be providing support, among other assets such as naval gunfire support, tomahawk strikes, etc. 

Everything already covered here. You also could see support from other US branches.

6 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

D'ya wanna play 'em.....Or kill 'em?  ;)

If it's the latter, try here (single CM:SF scenario): 

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/tpg2/cm-shock-force/cmsf-ashsh-al-dababir-the-hornets-nest/

Beginning to think I might have to try to make a campaign out of the original after all.  :rolleyes:

I would probably prefer to play a Campaign vs. ISIS.

However I also have no problem taking the perspective of the other side. Not long ago I´ve played a campaign where you take the role of a Syrian con/uncon commander trying to hold off a British/US attacking force and - hands down - it was an extremely unique experience. I am very eager to play the "Uprising" and "Road to Dinas" campaign but decided to wait for CMSF2.

I hope you´ll find a way to fix the obstacles without too much work involved. Your Mosul map and the ideas you´ve shown here would make a top notch campaign.

Btw checked your link, playing as Iraq´s Golden Division, nice. Will check that definitely out. In the scenario´s comments at TPG someone mentions a "video series", does he mean a documentary or is there any video footage provided in preparation for this mission?

Edited by MANoWAR.U51

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Capt & MoW thanks. One more question. The Marine campaign starts with a scouting force on the "beach" at 2:00 in the morning. I assume they have arrive by some sort of smallcraft. Is that SOP?

One other thing.  In the original game, the Campaign briefing says the landing is supported by elements of the 5th Fleet. Shouldn't that be 6th Fleet in the Med?

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8 hours ago, MANoWAR.U51 said:

I hope you´ll find a way to fix the obstacles without too much work involved. Your Mosul map and the ideas you´ve shown here would make a top notch campaign.

Same here. The scenario was a blast, but even more interesting are the ideas in it. Between that and the TOC scenario there are a whole lot of very creative “tricks” for unusual scenario design. Exciting stuff 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sequoia said:

Capt & MoW thanks. One more question. The Marine campaign starts with a scouting force on the "beach" at 2:00 in the morning. I assume they have arrive by some sort of smallcraft. Is that SOP?

One other thing.  In the original game, the Campaign briefing says the landing is supported by elements of the 5th Fleet. Shouldn't that be 6th Fleet in the Med?

They would have the option get near the beach with their amphibious assault ship, with the landing crafts (LCU,LCM) and with the air-cushioned variants (LCAC). How close depends on the situation and beach conditions. Vehicles and infantry may be directly traverse the shallow water from the crafts to reach the beach, or when further away from the beach and still deep water between them they would first use their amphibious vehicles like the AAV to get to the beach and check if everything is fine for which we even will get the ability to do so in CMSF2.

Landing at night is possible and would be viable option given the circumstances provided in SF. Send in a scout force of course also a plausible option. You surely won´t bring the complete MEU and stuff like the cafeteria with you on the first landing. However nothing is written in stone and different commanders may chose different aproaches due to different circumstances.

Here some vids were you can see it in action at day and night, keep in mind that excercises often differ from the real deal due to safety reasons for example.

http://www.military.com/video/forces/marine-corps/marine-amphibious-night-operations/2581541159001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwmVjRbtsk8

Video 2: The big ship in the background on the left is a ampibious assault ship, the right one far away, not sure, looks like a DD, Arleigh Burke perhaps, wild guessing here, the small ones landing at the shore are LCU/M´s

Equipment overview which should answer all questions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=181&v=tt0PD0rLgCE          

About the Fleet thing well it is the Mediterranean Sea so technically home of the 6th but when war is close fleets get redeployed, especially when considering that the 5th wouldn´t have a long way trough the Suez canal to reach the theatre. But perhas someone else can provide more valuable information on that.

 

 

   
Edited by MANoWAR.U51

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There's a small technical problem retro-fitting standing scenarios with stretches of water for beach landings. All CM titles, when you add an additional 200 meters of terrain to the left  (west) side a map all of the placed units will be displaced 200 meters to the left of their original positions. Not an insurmountable problem but its tedious to fix, especially if you've got a huge scenario on your hands. Depending on the scenario it could involve a lot of labor just for that 1 minute thrill of seeing AAV-7s coming ashore. I don't think you encounter the same problem adding more territory to the right (east) side. But Syria doesn't have an east coast. :P

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33 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

 All CM titles, when you add an additional 200 meters of terrain to the left  (west) side a map all of the placed units will be displaced 200 meters to the left of their original positions. 

Applies to flavored objects also...

Better have the mapsize decided before spending to much time adding the fine details...

And i belive that the displacement of units and objects will happen regardless of wich mapside you expand...but i might be missremembering on this one ;)

 

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Mike, yeah I personally wouldn't have a problem if water wasn't added to the beach landing scenario, but others might. I'm mainly picking folks brains to see if other elements that weren't available in the Engine some 9 years ago could now be tweaked for realism, and also confirming the way the landing is represented is believable. It seems to be the case that it is. IIRC you made another beach landing scenario (Shores of Tripoli) that I enjoyed a lot. If I had one request for that, it would be to rearrange the IEDs as I still remember where some are. :) 

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11 hours ago, MANoWAR.U51 said:

 

Will check that definitely out. In the scenario´s comments at TPG someone mentions a "video series", does he mean a documentary or is there any video footage provided in preparation for this mission?

might be this one...

 

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3 hours ago, MANoWAR.U51 said:

 

http://www.military.com/video/forces/marine-corps/marine-amphibious-night-operations/2581541159001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwmVjRbtsk8

Video 2: The big ship in the background on the left is a ampibious assault ship, the right one far away, not sure, looks like a DD, Arleigh Burke perhaps, wild guessing here, the small ones landing at the shore are LCU/M´s

   

Interestingly the same Bn. from LLFs scenario on Joker 1 and the battles for Ramadi.  Another one I look forward to playing in CMSF 2

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